Having spoken to someone closely affiliated with the wrc, I'm sure he isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
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Having spoken to someone closely affiliated with the wrc, I'm sure he isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
Allegedly the lawyers are very much involved between Meeke and Citroen...
Ostberg taking credit for the changes to the C3 WRC which have been made in his tests and to suit his driving style:
"We have done massive things to the car," Ostberg told Autosport.
"Together with the engineers I have changed the philosophy with the car, I'm driving it differently.
"I am the one who wanted [those changes] to help me drive fast. I was not confident in Portugal and Sardinia, but now I am."
Asked if he was surprised at the times in shakedown, he replied: "The times are strong and yes, I am a little bit surprised.
"Like I said, we have done big things, but it's difficult to know if you tune it enough.
"My boss asked me the same question: 'is it enough?' We did 50 clicks in the damper, changed the suspension here and diff there and... does it work? You only need one of these elements to be out and it's gone, but I do feel like we've got it right.
"What can I do on the event? I can do what I did on shakedown. The question is what can the others do between now and the finish?
"We can win this rally if the car is working well. The feeling from the test, the feeling today and the recce is all good.
"I want to go out and do exactly what I have done; I can drive at the speed I had in shakedown for two weeks in a row if I want."
Big words from a guy who has never won a WRC event on pure pace. I'd love to see Mads battling at the front but in my head I can't quite see it. Let's see. I have good memories of 2013 and my second trip to Finland. He and Thierry were on it that year.
The new rear sub-frame made it to Portugal if I remember correctly, now the front sub-frame for Finland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
These things have taken a year to develop, most likely after Meeke complaining was substaniated by Loeb... now and Otsberg is taking any credit on the back of one shakedown result. He is learn to keep his mouth shut. What will be his excuse on Sunday evening?
Breen will outpace him over the rally.
One thing is to complain that something is wrong; another is to help fixing it. I truly believe Ostberg is better than Meeke on the second, which is great for Citroen.Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
Let the man say whatever he wants. Dude has spent a fortune to run in the WRC. It's one more driver and one more WR car on the stages... 4 hours before we see some serious action. So many unknowns makes this event incredibly interesting.
Toyota should dominate. The word within Toyota is that Lappi has been showing amazing pace during tests. He was about 95% during shakedown according to EPL himself. JML and EPL both admitted to taking fairly easy during shakedown as they have done enough testing.
Citroen coming in with new front suspension mods, but the driver talent will keep them in 5th-6th place in my opinion.
Hyundai has done some testing in Finland/Estonia to be better this year.
Ford with new aero and Sachs dampers for Ogier to help him...although rumor is the sachs dampers were introduced fairly late and this might be an issue for Seb, but we shall see.
he has you fooled too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
He actually made the subaru S14 driveable, he isn't that bad for sure.
Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk
I'm a big Meeke fan, but I also like Mads too. I think he gets a lot of stick for having money, which takes away a little credit when he does do well.
However, I'm with wrc2017 on this one. It is well documented that Kris was pushing for changes with the setup of the car. Citroen only heeded when it was confirmed by other drivers (who they could of, should of used in initial car development as well).
Citroen said it would take a year to implement the changes. Do you really believe Mads does a pet an calls for changes which suddenly now take a matter of weeks to sort?
I don't really see anyone saying all changes are due to Østberg, that would be foolish.
Equally foolish as claiming all changes are due to Meeke.
In the article that was linked, kind of gives the impression that Mads pretty much gives himself the credit for turning the car around.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
But yes, agree Meeke can't be given all credit either, but the reports all said the other drivers were asking for the same thing as Kris, and Loeb ran very similar settings to Kris. Therefore, he must have a pretty good grip on car setup.
Considering the pace of Citroen, I wonder might it change Ogier's decisions about next season?
It's just one rally...
It’s also well documented that Meeke and Citroen staff were delighted with the car during the 9 months they spent testing it and complains only started after the first rally outing, which means the whole team was caught by surprise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm75
With only a few engineers left from Xsara/C4 days and a leading driver with no experience on active diffs they clearly struggled to find a quick fix; inviting Mikkelsen to give an extra help or calling a former WRC engineer to replace the tech director were ways to speed up the process and it makes little sense relate them to Meeke remarks.
Btw, Ostberg long experience with the Impreza and last year on the Fiesta can actually be usefull to Citroen; we shouldn’t forget he already managed to improve the C3 set up in Sweden.
Smart question; probably only Matton can answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal the 2nd
Valid points. Citroens problem was however, relied heavily using the same sort of roads in France to develop the car. Even in a road car, you can hammer up and down familiar pieces of road and the car can feel fine. Take it on other road surfaces and that same car that felt fine elsewhere can feel a lot different, even with much greater tolerances engineered into the suspension and steering settings to allow for the variation in road surfaces a road car has to cope with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
The reason why they went with Mads, he doesn't tend to bin it too often. Citroen started the year with a fixed budget, not an infinite one.
Kris is a very quick driver, but drives 100% all the time. Fine if the car behaves, but if it's got fundamental problems it's better to drive at 95% and bring the car home, so money can be spent on development instead of repair costs.
So as Tanak checks out in Rally Finland, and Otsberg has the chance of a lifetime to win Rally Finland and go down as a legend... his stage end comments read..
OSTBERG:"We are trying to increase the speed step by step, it feels quite good. We're not willing to do anything stupid, at these speeds you want to stay on the roads."
The car is still as good as yesterday, but Ostberg doesn't have the IT factor.
He is still doing great, being the second fastest. Toyota was fast at his home event already last year, add Tänak to the equation and it`s just magnificent, but he is still in front of the other 2 Toyotas, winners/leader of last years event.
sure. but he hasn't that last 1%Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmop
So you think he chould take "a Meek".Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
Citroen WRT thread.
Citroen WRT is doing very well in Finland 2018.
Why is a kicked driver that finished 8th here last year 3 mins down getting brought up as comparison?
The world wonders.
Hmmm, why would a bunch of rally enthusiasts mention a rally driver in a thread about a rally team that said rally driver is (probably still) contracted to.
Why did you mention him a couple of posts ago if it winds you up so much? Just chill and allow people to have their conversations, and ignore what you don't want to read, it's not the end of the world!
Citroen only on the pace because of complete new front and rear geometry including sub frames.. and a new homologated centre diffs, now with Olins dampers.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
For 18 months CWRT drivers had been told to go and win rallys in what obviously was a defective car. With upgrades that were set in motion 9 month ago now on the car...is that not now becoming obvious to even you. which part of the above is wrong?
Meeke's speed is clearly the answer to why he was kept.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal the 2nd
Ostberg hasnt ever been the outright fastest guy... but its not always that that wins rallies and championships.
Congratulations to Citroen for this result. If they can repeat this level of competitiveness elsewhere, then this could really stir up the driver market - thinking Paddon, Latvala and even Ogier. If the car can be proven to have the pace, any one of them may be tempted to jump ship from their present team.
Not taking anything away from Ostberg - that was a rally long performance that many (including me) did not expect.
I think we need a few rallies to judge how far Citroen has actually come. Finland is a very smooth and particular rally. I think Turkey, Spain and GB will give a better indication of what progress have actually been made but no doubt they have made progress because let's be realistic, Finland is not a rally Østberg should be able to fight for the lead in.
This is going to be interesting for 2019 if they, like they promised, bag a driver able to win all events.
Soon after last year tech director replacement the car started to improve and even Meeke admitted it. Mikkelsen was P2 on Germany rough tarmac; Meeke won Catalunya (only 3s down on the gravel leg) and fought for the lead in Australia till hitting a bridge guard. This year all sort of minor incidents (especially punctures and drivers mistakes) undermined final results but stage times in Mexico, Corsica or Argentina proved the car can be fast when properly tuned. Breen brilliantly managed to be P2 in Sweden with Ostberg set up tips and this weekend the Norwegian excelled himself, showing how helpful he can be for Citroen. Congrats to him and the team.Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
Yes that makes it really interesting. They now have 2nd places from both Sweden and Finland with 2 different drivers both considered "2nd rate".Quote:
Originally Posted by greencroft
If they are to be serious about doing WRC they need a top driver that can potentially charge for title. Out of these Ogier,Neuville and Latvala seemingly don't have contract for next year and this could help get one of them. (out of these I'd consider Ogier the most likely).
Paddon I rate a bit below these, but he would also be a good addition. (they won't have any very good tarmac driver in the lineup then though).
For him it might be more tempting to do a full season with Citroen than half-season in Hyundai.
Do anyone know what Citroen has changed in the front suspension/geometry in the last update?
Any pictures taken in finland that can point to the changes?
they have now ohlins dampers from what i heard
Citroen
They`ve had Ohlins dampers since last year alreadyQuote:
Originally Posted by Barreis
FEATURE: Citroen’s drivers talk C3 upgrades, and the Otago Rally in NZ
https://rallysportmag.com/feature-ci...o-rally-in-nz/
No doubt the car has make significant progress with a complete chassis upgrade now installed. But to be realistic, Ogier and Neuville are not, on pure pace, 2/3 mins slower than Tanak. Therefore I think the road position flattered Otsberg slightly on Day 1, but when on a equal footing with Tanak on road position on Saturday, he was put to bed. He is not a rally winner. I think Citroen are more concerned with showcasing the turnaround with their car, than they are about anything else, to try and tempt Ogier back.
It's hard for you to swallow that Østberg was only 32sec behind Tanak and not the 2/3min you expected isn't it...?Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
I think that's quite good value for money considering Toyota did near 20 days of test before Finland and Citroën only 3.
kinda off-topic question but do Citroen and Hyundai also test close to their base? we know that m-sport has its own track/road close to the base and Toyota can test in finland close to Puuppola.
In 2016 when Meeke won in Finland he had road position advantage for all 3 days (championship running order for both Friday and Saturday (8th on the road out of 9 WRCs) and then reverse positions for Sunday, so last as he was leading.).
When I pointed it out previously the diehard-fan claimed it had close to nothing to say. Now it suddenly matters for Østberg ;)
In Finland the ruts were huge on the second run of stages so the later cars were also disadvantaged at times...
But probably not much difference from first to tenth WRC car. Except maybe ruts being plowed to more WRC car like from R2 car tracksQuote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC