Unless you're in the room with them, what an odd thing to say. Do you think I did much at work so far this year or do I choose to do nothing because I work for myself?Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
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Unless you're in the room with them, what an odd thing to say. Do you think I did much at work so far this year or do I choose to do nothing because I work for myself?Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
Probably you are just studying how to be grumpy all the time, annoy people, and enjoy being miserable. I don't have another explanation for why you always attack everyone here with your negativity and smart-ass answers. I'm sorry for the people around you.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
They love it don't worry about them.Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
https://rallyjournal.com/wrc-team-bo...-top-priority/
If M-Sport with lowest budget says that the price of a Rally1 car isn't top priority to change, then this is not a problem. He is right.
Although all stupid FIA fines should be reconsidered and rather turned into a story and boost marketing aspect.
What I'm more concerned why the hell rulemakers needs so much time to decide (rules are probably being revealed in december). Is it enough to existing teams to prepar the cars? Is it enough time to Hyundai rethink and stay in the sport? Is it enough to convince potential new teams to enter? Well I think NOT. Another shoot in the leg.
I'm pretty confident hiunday and the potential newcomers (as the other manu) already know where things are going...
Do you have any more info than the rest of the world? Because it seems quite the opposite. The recent year actually showed that they don't know anything, nor even can't complete meetings, and saying that they get at least one step further. They are just throwing random stupid ideas to the world. Yet the real threat of one crucial brand is here, right now. And if things don't get right at the end, I believe that even M-Sport will lose that little piece from Ford they're getting. This isn't the right message to potential new entrants... And how would then even ''private'' teams prepare with significantly lower budget than official manufacturer teams?Quote:
Originally Posted by wyler
f1 with liberty became this thing that made every other motorsport series think they should do the same thing in order to reach f1's popularity and investment. we keep reading the word "promotion" everywhere now, this is so tiring and frustrating for an older fella like me haha
fia speaks constantly with all involved, even if outside everything is silent, how can you believe that the manus involved have no idea of what's happening? they would be way more vocal.Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
they surely know the general direction. just the same way they didn't flinch that much with the rally1-/rally2+ announcement that then was retired. i guess manus were pretty confident to stay with this reg until '27. and now I'm positive they have talks and a general idea of what is brewing.
Latvala sounds worried....
https://rallyjournal.com/wrc-is-in-t...atest-rumours/
Hayden Paddon on Spin, The Rally Pod discusses how rallying should change:
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/paddo...hould-improve/
The big choice of direction will be going for more manufacturers, or more privateers...
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/7DPPrpQSZbS4HbrQ/
Would that be a future? 😂
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/sordo...ithout-hybrid/
Interesting Reid quotes there
And yet still don't get it. That man is spinning in a infinite circle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitris
"The next set of WRC regulations, streamlined for 2027, are set to leave propulsion options open to manufacturers, so there will be no requirement to run a hybrid unit."
Reid: "The automotive industry hasn’t kind of worked out where it’s going and we feel the best option is to have something that, you know, a manufacturer can come along and they have the freedom to adopt what they want. So I think for me that’s very positive,”.
WHAT? did i missed the news where they announced this?
(im still not confident this will atract manufacturers, tbh)
You didn’t, they remain tight lipped about it, I’ll be surprised if we’ll know anything before December this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by saco0o
It's just an update on where the discussions seem to be leading - 'run what you brung' with EoP - but nothing official agreed yet for 2027.Quote:
Originally Posted by saco0o
'manufacturers want SUVs, hybrid, evs, hydrogen"
last week Toyota announced its entering V8Supercars with a GR Supra. the road car is sold with a 6Cyl 3L engine, but naaah, they will compete with a V8 (the championship allows 6 and 4 cyl cars). obviously is not an actual FACTORY team like in wec, wrc but they seemed super happy about joining the championship - without hybrids, hydrogen, SUV or ev
sorry for the random rant
I think Toyota is the most diverse of all brands. They offer practicaly everything and cover all the people wishes (and we know every person wants different things). It's a fact that they are top 1 for many years now. While literally all others follow the agenda and keep punching themselfes in the faces with all those "only EVs and SUVs".
It never made sense to promote hybrid in the WRC. Those that watch rallying are not the people that are looking to specifically buy a hybrid.Quote:
Originally Posted by saco0o
Promote the green idea's to green people at bike shows, not to petrol heads.
There it goes again.Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
Here in Norway the type of people that switched to EVs in large numbers as one of the first groups were BMW5/Audi A6 drivers that switched to Model S cause it accelerated much faster (for the same amount of money), and was more "cool and new" tech. Later same type of people switched to Porsche Taycan. Next type was BMW3 drivers that switched to Model 3 Performance, Polestar 2 performance or lately BMW i4/ Ioniq 5 N/ EV6 GT.
Similarly, before that you would get people switching from Volvo diesel to T8 plug-in hybrid partly because of much more power.
Neither of these are "green people at bike shows."
But off course there would be much fewer switching if the EV or hybrid was much more expensive. Which is why manus wanted to promote Hybrids/EVs to people that actually are likely to spend more money on a car. "Green people at bike shows" won't.
And none of those are the kind that comes to watch rallying.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
the main reason imho was fiscal incentives (now to rethink)Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
The FIA technical director Xavier Mestelan Pinon has offered an update on plans to increase manufacturer interest in WRC 2027...
https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/...2027/10658175/
For people who buy stupid expensive cars anyway, the 90% paying for luxury cars for the top 10%.Quote:
Originally Posted by manthey
its honestly impressive how we keep having articles saying absoluting nothing hahaQuote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
we keep reading interviews with fia, team principals, drivers, brands etc about this new rules for 2027 and they all keep running in circles not knowing what to do. we are screwed.
They're so over confident. I wonder what will they do if no one new will apply. Probably they will wait 6-7 years before they will start scratching their heads. Don't know why this rallying world always gets the news and all that comes along too late. And in comparision with F1 they're like. New regs will come out 2026 for 2035 cycle. Drivers signing new contracts 2 years before expiration for 10+ years, deals and venues get 20+ years and again few years before contracts ends. And here, well. We got something... Quite... They're talking... That's something no other series do better, I think. Bringing nothing and even that could be tweaked to worse (their thinking maybe)Quote:
Originally Posted by saco0o
What’s this about?
https://x.com/motorsportskoda/status...C1kV5QC61vX5Xg
Enyaq RS Race. An electric prototype by Skoda.
They're probably just experimenting, like Ford did with that SuperVan, VW with that pikespeak machine record breaker. Skoda just unveiled some small SUV, Elroq.. It kinda like Fabia but higher. It could be perfect if everyone would go that way (and if they have a vision to cancel Fabia, like veryone else these days).
Some time ago I commented on Facebook under their post in a joke and they actualy reply. It was about their 600 cars sold. I commented them, how many seasons could they afford with all that money they get out of those cars. They reply: that is not realistic. In order to be viable, we closed down our factory team and focused purely on Customer Racing Programme, which we have perfected and thanks to which we can continue, and sustainability programmes also allow us to exist today and in the future. As Peter comments, going Rally1 under current conditions is not possible for us.
hmmmmmmmmm smells like TCR? do we know if thats even something related to rallying?
anyway, rally2 rules are also changing in 2027 right?
its seems like the 'easier' way to go is to simply move from small hatchbacks to small crossover cars, keeping all the rest the same but with some upgrades on the door impact safety.
we talk a lot abot rally1s here, but if they are changing rally2s, they cannot go too crazy on that. new rules must allow current cars to compete on pair, so we can have a gradual change with time. waaay too many R5s out there for it to be simply scrapped.
They should radicaly change Rally1 category in a way that could suit many entries, as manufacturers or private teams. Rally2 should be tweaked little by little and not touch in many ways as the formula was, is and it will be perfect for many years.
i have this especific doubt on the R5s:
if i had the money to just install the roll cage safety cell specs on an Audi S1 or a Renault Megane, have the engine on the rules specs... can i simply enter and compete in wrc2/erc? or its not allowed? does manufacturers need to authorize this kind of thing? do they need do pay? is something related to homologation? cuz theres lots of models doing tcr and ap4 and none are actual factory teams. why that doesnt happens in rally2?
Rally 2s for FIA need to be homologated by a manufacturer. That's why Meirion Evans Mirage and Proton stayed local to the UK and the Holzer Corsa never took off.
You can do that in AP4 and Maxi Rally and some stuff in Spain (N5 I think), but none of those are FIA.Quote:
Originally Posted by saco0o
Rally 2 Kit is the only way to take an A1 for example like Ekström did for a few events (ORECA developed kit with a 1,6 PSA engine if I remember correctly). But those things are not on the level of proper Rally2 cars and the whole idea is kind of dying I think.
R5/Rally2 must be approved by the manufacturer for homologation. One example is the Holzer Corsa R5 from 2017, it got pretty far in development and they had built up a proper prototype but Opel/GM refused them the right homologate it.
TCR is also not a FIA ruleset, but most privately developed cars like the Alfa, Subaru and so one ended up uncompetitive or driven of the market by manufacturer developed cars.
Small note fwiw, the Iriz was FIA homologated by Proton of Malaysia.Quote:
Originally Posted by macebig
interesting! but what "homologation" means in that sense? is it "authorizing" the use of a car or they need to actvely be involved in the construction, selling, injet money...?
for example: can the vw group just say "yes, anyone can get a modern cupra small crossover model and turn it up to R5 specs...?" or the vw group kinda need to be involved? idk how that works hehe. i dont imagine ford giving fiestas do msport with rollcage installed for example, i understand that msport (and others) have authorization from the brand and fia to remove everything from a fiesta and turn it into the rally model.
am i too distant from reality? cuz if its like that it seems easier to kinda "hey manufacturers, next R5 rules is for small crossovers, can you all allow models "?
Authorisation, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by saco0o
FIA Rally2-5, there's multiple steps of homologation. First, a mass-manufacturer has to be producing a touring car in enough numbers, currently 2500 identical cars in the year up to homologation, and they need to get certification on that from a local ASN. Only the manufacturer can do that. This car has to be accepted into Group A by the FIA, which permits changes for safety and performance tuning for motorsport use. It used to be you could go racing and rallying at this point but not now, because all the 'touring car' series have special purpose cars now, even at lower levels, so in reality the application for Group A and Rally2-5 is simultaneous. The second homologation is to specialise a Group A car into what makes it a Rally2-5, which confirms compliance with those specific regulations. A private company may do this development work but will still need support and permission of the manufacturer to get this homologation because it's an 'extension' of the first, and there is probably protection for the manufacturers, FIA and buyer surrounding the selling of Rally2 kits/cars.
Ford will supply M-Sport with bodyshells and only the components they produce that M-Sport need, they don't remove anything from a completed road car - it's inefficient and not business sense. Other common parts from third parties will be procured by M-Sport. The Rally2 bits and pieces can be sold separately as a kit for a privateer to fit, this is how Polos continued to be (homologated)x built quietly, years after VW noisily withdrew from motorsport. but it also doesn't make sense for a privateer to pay for and rip out needless comforts and technology. VW may have sold/licensed out the design and spec for production of the kit, somebody else can confirm. Privateers also don't have the opportunity to get one or two bodyshells from a manufacturer without that manufacturer approving the idea.
For Rally1 it's a bit different as they are straight up race cars developed only for the WRC Rally1 championship. There is no Group A part. The Rally1 homologation requirements are not public, but if it's like the World Rally Car, the production certification still needs to be attained and the cars can only be homologated by a team that enters the WRC Manufacturer's championship, which is all very costly and requires big commitment. Ford will supply M-Sport with a phone number of whoever manufactures the headlights, windscreen and any other mandatory components, but everything else is up to M-Sport to procure, make and assemble.
When thinking of allowing privateers doing this without manufacturer support, don't forget that the manufacturers are powerful within the FIA and the FIA is not just about motorsport. Many manufacturers do not do motorsport yet a manufacturers' representative sits permanently on the World Motorsport Council, (the approver of ALL regulations), and various commissions and committees. It's not clear who is on the WRC commission at the moment because the FIA decided to keep it semi-secret this year. IMO, the idea that the FIA will encourage the privateer to replace manufacturers is not realistic. Not only is it demoting the FIA 'member manufacturers' presence, but there is big money involved from the manufacturers that do want to participate in sport, and they do not want to be against another manufacturer who gets a free ride by a privateer.
I hope this answer is useful.
that was a really interesting read for me, thanks! sounds WAY more complicated than what i thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary Mary
good post, mate.
after getting more into how difficult is the whole homologation thing, doenst this (image on the link, i cant post images, idk why) start to look like an option for Rally2?
normally, championships that use this type of car can reduce the general costs when its produced by just one or two brands. or when the rulers/spec for the construction are super strickt, you can build in house and it will be similar to the other's constructions (wait, i cant post the image haha its something like https://www.planetedacia.com/images/...0557_1_6_1.jpg
That is in concept at least more or less Rally1, but given we are talking about a world championship I would find it a shame to make Rally1 into a spec series.Quote:
Originally Posted by saco0o