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Motorsport News dated May 27 has a report that quotes Iain Campbell saying WRGB won't run without spectators. Ticket revenue is a significant part of the budget and without ticket sales to specatators there won't be an event.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
There are other WRC events due ahead of GB. Whichever way those rallies are run then Rally GB could be under pressure to do the same.
The WRC will be desperate to have as many events as possible this year to make a 'proper Championship'. Wales dropping out wont go down well.
Maybe the WRC promoter could help out with funding if Wales cant run without fans.
It is nonsense to make rally without fans. You cannot manage that nobody will be there...
Rallies with no fans are a British speciality! :D Though you're right, nowadays with the likes of Rally Maps and ewrc, ect, there's a lot of information that can be easily found by even a casual fan. It'd be very difficult to keep not inconsiderable numbers of spectators away now. Personally I don't think having people turn up is too much of a risk Convid 19 wise, but there could be traffic chaos without organisation/accommodation of parking.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
Rally GB Cancellation is when not if...
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/rally...of-when-not-if
And now it's canceled officially.
Well, I guess time to get ready and testing for 2021 now
Only 3 events remaining now with original dates.
Not a surprise, especially after reading the comments of the leader of the Sennedd, were he stated sporting events are bottom of the list. Some people may be confused when they see other sporting events taking place, F1, Premier League football, but a rally in Wales can't take place.......
I think we don't have to wait for a long time until the remaining rallies will also cancel their eventsQuote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk
And with all that done, I believe we can pretty safely say now there will be no more WRC at all this year.
So, what about those 3 events that we did have?
I think they shouldn't be taken into account as world championship rallies and this season should be declared null and void.
Let's just hope 2021 would bring the proper championship back!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaps
Yep, difficult to imagine they can salvage it now... if they can’t run enough events to constitute a championship then why run any of them. Let’s hope they can come up with something, but it looks very difficult.
If it is a special year then every single event which is able to run should be run. No matter if we have four, five or six events at the end.
It makes absolutely no sense to cancel all just as there wont be more than a certain number.
One or two more is always a lot better than zero. Zero is a major damage to the series for long term.
They have to rethink. If the planned events are not able to run for some reasons, maybe some other 2 day events at remote locations like an island are able to host a wrc event.
If for example ERC is able to run some of their island events, make it also a WRC event. This year is special, nothing has to be like in "normal" years.
The whole point of the championship is to crown a champion. I don't think there's any value for the teams and the WRC brand to go ahead with some events just for the sake of it, especially without spectators. WRC is not like F1 - events rely heavily on the income from ticket sales.
But I agree, they should think outside of the box, this is not a normal year. Eastern-Europe wasn't hit as hard by COVID, maybe Croatia can jump in a year early. Maybe other countries are willing to step-up.
Hopefully, they can get the needed number of rallies to run to qualify as a world championship. Otherwise, they should concentrate their efforts on 2021.
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/the-b...2020-revealed/
Here we have information on the now-disposed routes for Wales Rally GB 2020
Somewhat underwhelming, though I did set the bar pretty high with my opening post! Going back to this article, to be fair, Iain Campbell did only say "we’d come up with something a bit more radical". Should have realised the emphasis should have been on 'a bit'. I'm not not sure what to make of it. It would have been very useful as a basic proof of concept, to set a precedent. If they could have introduced a remote night stop into this event, you've essentially got the framework to allow a modern 'RAC' style event. But it seems a bit odd that they wouldn't have made more of it for this year. All that effort for Myherin, Sweet Lamb Hafren and Dyfi, the usual suspects. Come on, not even Taliesin?! :D Seemingly it might have been a Newtown base, so why not have given Radnor a shot instead Dyfi, at least?Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
The Sunday is another case of what could have been. If nothing else, it shows how short of money the organisers are, abandoning the forests entirely. But why just Oulton? I've wondered whether bringing back a day of 'Sunday Stages' would be possible. Maybe as a pre-Rally GB event, as I wouldn't personally willingly sacrifice a Sunday in the forests on a three day Rally GB. But, given they've gone down this road and made that sacrifice, why not be more ambitious?
SS14 Oulton Park
SS15 Trentham Gardens
SS16 Sutton Park
Finish Birmingham
Think of the impact that'd make! That could get noticed. That could attract the attention of sponsors. They've already taken the brave step out of Wales years ago now, last year particularly, so would it hurt to be a little more adventurous?
The only great loss from that route for me is the 25km in Clocaenog. I'd have loved to have seen the stage in there. Some of the new roads in there around the wind farm, which surely would have had to have been used, are Finland like, fast and wide. Combined with the more traditional narrow Cloc tracks, it could have been interesting. Something new-ish. Shakedown in Cloc would have been better too.
Sadly, all this became irrelevant courtesy of Covid 19. I suppose the upside to them having played it conservatively is that there's nothing too special to lament losing... At least it isn't hard to imagine what we'll be missing...
Good points. However, like I've said earlier, it's hard to argue against Myherin, Dyfi and Sweet Lamb Hafren since they are just so damn great stages, even if it means having unchanged route. I wouldn't trade any of them for Taliesin or even Radnor.Quote:
Originally Posted by the sniper
The Sunday park stages sound suddenly like a good idea. It would have some retro edge to it, and as we know those park stages are demanding. However, nowadays Sundays aren't that big with spectators so implementing it is maybe not sensible. In this time (sans COVID) it would have to be a Saturday evening of park stages with big party tents so you can drink beer and listen to a rock'n'roll band while a WRC driver does donuts on a parking lot.
With Taliesin I'd only consider it as an additional stage on that loop. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
I honestly don't think the Sunday morning/early afternoon would be an issue spectator wise here. I think the novelty of having such a event locally in the likes of Trentham Gardens or particularly Sutton Park would be enough to draw people in, with some publicity. Alwen and Brenig struggle to handle the number of spectators, many of whom you can hear on the ground have English accents, particularly from the likes of the Liverpool and Manchester area. If they're not staying in the area, which I doubt many of them are, they'll have had to set out from their homes at 4am or 5am latest to be able to get into the stage. Even if you're staying locally you need to head out to the stages at that time if you want to be sure of having a decent day! So the likes of Oulton Park, Tatton Park, Trentham Gardens and Sutton Park would be comparatively much easier to reach from large population centres.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Rally GB is quite different from my experiences of Rally Finland. Rally GB isn't an easy event to spectate on, but that is part of its appeal. Rally Finland is (to its credit) a much more leisurely affair, I can 100% agree that having a park stage on Rally Finland (or many other events) in August would make far more sense on a Saturday afternoon, with the music and beer tents, than a Sunday morning. But in November, on a wet weekend in the UK, you're not going to get a party atmosphere either way. I don't know if it's a curiously British thing, but I think there's something which appeals to people here about taking enjoyment from doing things which sensible people would consider madness, incomprehensible, or a bit sh*t! The Sunday stages could be great again!
https://dirtfish.com/rally/why-the-p...-has-a-future/
Interesting thoughts - but, and it's a major but; surely the teams & WRC Promoter would want to keep the current 'event format'? However, in my view, the event and the sport in the UK would be better served by an event that is less restrictive.
What do you mean with less restrictive? Allowing remote services? Longer routes? It's more of an issue of expenses less than regulations.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
One piece of that article doesn't fit my math. They say that it would be good to have multiple regions arranging the event to get more budget. At the same time, each region would get less exposure and hospitality revenue in return. Also title sponsoring would be more difficult (as I mentioned on my blog post )
I agree with your assessment. I can't see how it wouldn't primarily need to rely on a commercial title sponsor or a philanthropist if it were to go national again. Maybe (well, pre-Covid) you could have got £150k to £250k in public funding from each region for their day of the event, with a premium for the Start and Finish, but that'd leave you short of the full budget required.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
You're not going to get a bigger budget from a collection of regions than we have seen from Wales alone for their event.
Travelling around the regions during one event is never going to happen again (like the RAC days).
One region has to be the main place and source of funds with maybe a short venture to one other area (like a city stage, of a couple of stately homes).
If I win the lottery, it'll definitely happen. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Seriously though, while I don't think it's likely, I don't think it's impossible. The easiest option is a single region event, hopefully rotating between different regions, funded almost wholly by the public. But that relies on regions providing quite a large amount of public funding for an event which doesn't really tick any of the right boxes in the 21st Century... I think it'll become almost impossible for any regional Government to justify funding a rally so dearly when wider public policy is so anti-car, particularity ICE powered car, which rallying will be based on for a long time to come. Northern Ireland is probably the safest bet, Wales too as it is so car dependant as a nation and rallying still means something there, but how long before an 'enlightened' group of politicians decide enough is enough? Something other than the current model might become the only option.
Going back to what might have been this year, while it might have been a challenge, the Sunday leg seems to me increasingly like it would have been a massive missed opportunity. That could have been a great opportunity to let Rally GB make a far greater impact on a much wider population, when this could have been one of the few remaining opportunities to sell rallying to the wider public and sponsors. Time is running out for Rally GB, playing it safe is ultimately killing the sport here anyway, so why not put ones neck out?
Remember that you also need a base event, some rallying culture, organizers with experience, you cannot just put up a WRC event from nothing. That's why Northern Ireland is a strong candidate. Why not Scotland also, or the Kielder area. We come again back to my idea to have an event run in Scotland, Kielder and Lake District, but it again poses the issue of multiple regions.
Genuine question..
Does the Monte span more than one region?
Is the Monte arranged by a rich automobile club and sponsored by a famous casino? There's a reason they don't even have to sell tickets to the stages...Quote:
Originally Posted by T16
Was that an answer?Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Thought you were the guru.
Do any other events make it work across many regions?
I thought you posed a rhetorical question.Quote:
Originally Posted by T16
Not really. Portugal has the Friday stages around Arganil and Sweden does a long liaison for the Karlstad super special.Quote:
Do any other events make it work across many regions?
Drivers do not like long liaisons
Teams don't like remote servicing (even if it's just tyre change area)
Teams and organizers don't like to have their service park being empty during a weekend.
Most spectators don't really care if the rally is in a small/single region or not.
The organizers struggle already now to have the recce in two days (Monte has to have three recce days)
It was a genuine question.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
The whole thing feels like it needs to do something different, that's for sure.
I think that is the issue. It really doesn't make a great impact on the general public/ mainstream sporting media. Playing it 'safe' isn't really doing anything to help grow the event/ sport. And this has a knock on effect; the lack of interested big money backers - whether that be a major commercial sponsor or regional/tourist board.Quote:
Originally Posted by the sniper
One final thought; during the event's heyday, I suspect it didn't matter whether the event was in the WRC or not - it was still a massive event. Now it's run for the benefit of the WRC; no WRC, no event.
That is spot-on. The WRC is for the manufacturers and sponsors nowadays and has gone increasingly this way over the years and even more so since the 2017- cars came in.
New countries and rallies have to beg to join in and do whatever the promoter says. But this is the same even for the classic events.
The costs of the latest-spec cars have also killed off the local entry in the top class compared to just a decade ago. No 'local hero' fighting the WRC big boys reduces the attraction of WRC to the general public in that country.
When was the last time this actually happened? (I mean, before Suninen in Finland 2017 on the 2017 car)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Østberg in Sweden with Adapta/Prokop.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Did he challenge for the win? Also, it happened with the 2017 cars. Did it ever happen with the previous generation cars?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
2016 Rally Mexico - Benito Guerra.
Maybe not challenging, but he brought a big local audience to watch him in a WRC car.
Others like Prokop, Bertelli & Gorban were often on events even if they werent locals. It all added to the entry and was good for fans to see.
Duval in germany 2007 comes to mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
It hasn't happened a lot, because even if you somehow would be able to get the same car as the factory drivers, those people have all the data. They do all the testing, they practically live in their car.
Even suninen wasn't a true privateer. He was driving a factory run car. It wasn't his, it wasn't rented from someone else, it was basicaly a tryout sold/given to him by malcolm.
Østberg in Rally Sweden 2011 6.5sec behind HirvonenQuote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
I think these guys should just go to WRC2, competitionally they're just in no-man's land driving a WRC car miles behind the factory cars. Besides, Bertelli does own his own WRC 2017 car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Had it not been for COVID-19, we would have seen this year Jocius, Latvala, Loubet and Paddon with a number of starts in a WRC car.
Last year we had Grönholm doing his anniversary event, Virtanen in Finland, Paddon doing two unlucky non-starts. Before that Serderidis, Kremer, ...
Also Marcos Ligato (DS3) and Gabriel Pozzo (Fiesta) with WRC in Rally Argentina a few years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC