do we know what size restrictor Rally3 will use?
Printable View
do we know what size restrictor Rally3 will use?
What regime is in place for this class for upgrades to keep cost down for the future?
Will it be frozen for x years once homologatet, joker system or something else?
AFAIK same system as for R5.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Friday 13th is supposed to be unlucky . . . . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
https://www.m-sport.co.uk/single-pos...-fiesta-rally3
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/8...f21e8~mv2.webp
INTRODUCING THE ALL-NEW FIESTA RALLY3
The all-new M-Sport Fiesta Rally3 is the first car built for the FIA’s Rally3 category, completing M-Sport’s ‘Ladder of Opportunity’ and the FIA Rally Pyramid.
Rally3 is a new category of rally car created to provide an accessible and affordable first step on the four-wheel drive ladder to be used on national, regional and world-level rallies.
The Fiesta Rally3 marks a new era for M-Sport – the first and so far, only manufacturer to offer a car for every tier of the FIA Rally Pyramid. The cost-effective four-wheel drive Fiesta Rally3 was designed and developed in M-Sport Poland’s state of the art facility in Krakow, Poland.
The M-Sport Fiesta Rally3 is undergoing an intense development programme on a variety of surfaces and conditions across Europe, using a unique cross section of world class drivers. A clear set of targets and standards have now been identified for the Fiesta Rally3 to establish unrivalled reliability. The most notable target is the homologation date; M-Sport Poland will homologate the first ever Rally3 car on 1st March 2021.
The M-Sport Fiesta Rally3 will be available for €99,999 excluding VAT and registration costs. In anticipation of the popularity of the Rally3 category, production is already underway in Krakow and deposits for first orders will be accepted from 16th November.
This offers customers the opportunity to take delivery of their Fiesta Rally3 from the date of homologation and begin their Rally3 championship campaigns just in time for the start of the 2021 season.
For further enquiries please contact: Rally3CarSales@m-sport.co.uk
A 1.5-litre EcoBoost engine will power the Fiesta Rally3, giving it a distinctive sound, combined with aggressive looks thanks to bonnet vents and a rear wing that provide as much function as they do form.
The all-new Fiesta Rally3 weighs in at 1210kg with a power output of 215BHP and 400Nm of torque from the 1.5 litre EcoBoost engine all transmitted through a five-speed sequential gearbox.
Reaching 100km/h in just five seconds and a top speed of 185km/h the M-Sport Fiesta Rally3 provides the perfect transition step for the next generation of rally drivers looking to cut their teeth in four-wheel drive machinery. M-Sport’s Fiesta Rally3 is sprung by three-way adjustable dampers front and rear using 17-inch and 15-inch rims for tarmac and gravel respectively.
It was important to M-Sport to begin work on the Fiesta Rally3 as soon as draft regulations were available, underlining M-Sport’s commitment to supporting drivers around the world from grassroots to greatness on the world stage. With such a broad spectrum of drivers in mind M-Sport Poland has ensured the testing programme reflects this by using a truly diverse selection of drivers from world championship veterans to those new to four-wheel drive machinery.
Maciej Woda, M-Sport Poland Director:
“I am very happy with how things are progressing with the Fiesta Rally3. Every time I see the development car, I feel very proud of the entire team that is working tirelessly and has been throughout 2020 on this truly ground-breaking car. In what has been a very difficult year for everybody, the team at Krakow are excelling themselves with the Fiesta Rally3, not letting anything get in the way of design and development. I want to say a huge congratulations and thank you to everybody contributing to this project so far. The Fiesta Rally3 and the collective effort going into its creation embodies everything that M-Sport exists for: providing every opportunity to the next generation of drivers. The Fiesta Rally3 will by no means be an alternative to any car that is out there currently, it will be a brand-new concept serving what has been a very underserved area of rallying. It will be the perfect steppingstone for those graduating from two-wheel to four-wheel drive, allowing drivers to learn and refine the skills needed to handle four-wheel drive machinery which is a massive step for any driver. Since early talks about the concept of Rally3, we have all been quite excited about the potential of this category. The cost cap was a key sticking point for us, and I feel €99,999 will be a very good price point for an entry level four-wheel drive car, especially for national and regional rally championships around the world.”
I think this class has potential to be even more popular than Rally2/R5 has been in number of produced cars.
And being first again, M-Sport will get a head start, and make good money.
The Fiesta Mk1 R5 with jokers is still a competitive car, and hopefully this one will last many years, and be fighting for class wins.
This one will be the success R4 could have been, had FIA not gone for sole source on the kit, and put the max price too high.
Is anything known yet about any potential competitors for the Fiesta Rally3 ?
I heard Renault was rumoured to be developing one and Hyundai said in the past they were planning to enter the Rally3 area...
I read somewhere (but I forgot where) that Ford (or M-Sport) will be the only company in the world to offer a rally car in each class:
Rally1 - Ford Fiesta WRC
Rally2 - Ford Fiesta R5 / Rally2
Rally3 - Ford Fiesta Rally3
Rally4 - Ford Fiesta Rally4
Rally5 - does Ford Fiesta Rally5 exist???
Yes, it does* https://www.m-sport.co.uk/fiesta-rally5 and can even score for example in ERC3 Junior: https://www.fiaerc.com/rally5-drivers-for-erc3-junior/
* It was presented as R1 and changed the number :)
What a fantastic achievement for one team to create the full set of of cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
None of the full Manufacturer teams have even come close.
M-Sport should be given the highest award from the FIA.
its because they dont have money,and they are going to bankrupt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
The Rally3 Fiesta can be ordered from today, 16 November.
Hopefully M-Sport can have it homologated from 1/1-21, so someone can use it from the beginning of next season.
https://www.m-sport.co.uk/fiesta-rally3
How many cars will they sell in 2021? Will they pass 50?
Fiesta Rally3 is to be homologated in March 2021
From your link: Sport Poland will homologate the first ever Rally3 car on 1st March 2021.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
(you didn´t bother to read what you shared :) )
Yes i read it all, but many national series starts earlier than that, and if it had been homologated in january, they could plan with one car in 2021. Mainly people that habe to pay the cars themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
Which national series have Championship class for Rally3 ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
(I know you can make entry to rally with Rally3 but for points I mean)
I think there is no Rally3 class in any championship by now. The class is about to make a debut in 2021. The amount of the cars at the beginning could not be enough for Rally3 class only, so maybe FIA should think about what to do with these cars in 2021. In my opinion it could be driven in ERC2 where we have Impreza and Evo.
At the beginning it was told that the restrictor size would vary according to engine capacity, but in June it was finally announced a 30mm restrictor for all Rally3 models.Quote:
Originally Posted by br21
https://www.fia.com/news/fia-announc...l-decisions-18 (on regional rally)
Dirtfish already reported that Toyota and Hyundai will launch Rally3 cars during 2021. With the rules changes it’s not known when, and if, Peugeot and Renault will announce their models; with the same restrictor for all, it’s not clear how 1.2 or 1.3 cars can now match 1.5 or 1.6 machines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Does the engine have to be closely based on a road car engine fitted to that model or can the cylinder capacity be enlarged? If no such changes are allowed then it seems rather short sighted they didn’t do something with the restrictor size. It could be rather limiting if a manufacturer does not have a 1.5/1.6 litre engine fitted to the road going model.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
That's a good question. In Rally4/5 they're based on the road car engine and once MSport is apparently using the Fiesta ST 1.5 engine (instead of a 1.6) on its Rally3 car, probably they must still be based in stock engines (it's becoming hard to remember that they were meant to be just a 4wd Rally4 upgrade...).Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
Btw, another strange reg move is to have all Rally4 cars with the same weight (and restrictor), meaning that 1.0 cars crews will hardly be able to match 1.2 or 1.3 rivals, as they now do. And once Rally5 cars won’t get the 30mm restrictor, probably we’ll end seeing the fastest Rally5 drivers pretty close to Rally4 competitors. Time will tell.
Up here i guess they will go in class 4,Quote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
In Norway, not many have ever started in this class. We had a few S1600 back in the days, and 1 R3T as far as I remember.
Klasse 4 Gr.A, R2C og R3C 1601 - 2000 cm³, Super 1600,
R3T (maks. 1600 cm³) og R3D (maks. 2000 cm³)
Why do You think that 1.0 with the same restrictor would have less power than 1.2 or 1.3? With the same restrictor the power difference shall be all about the efficiency and that could be actually better with 1.0 (less innertia and friction). The question is whether there won't be issue with the size of valves in the small engine or something else I didn't think about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
P.S. I'm no motoring engineer so I may be wrong. Maybe someone can correct me.
Take a closer look mate; in Rally4 case I’ve mentioned the weight regs change as the main doubt on 1.0 cars future speed. Probably, there’s no need to be an engineer to get that the Fiesta and the 208 paces are pretty leveled today, once the Fiesta can compensate its lower CC by having less 80kgs. Without that weight compensation and once they’ll use the same restrictor, is it hard to believe that the Fiesta can be outpaced?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
That's if you suppose that the cars will have same power ratio as they have now. I wouldn't be sure about that. I mean that the smaller restrictor may affect the larger engine's efficiency more than the smaller one. Let's wait and see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Fiesta min. weight is now 50kg less than 208. Apparently with 30mm restrictor max power/torque should should be almost identical to current ones. Simply turbos and engine volumes are so small that it wont affect that much. OK, probably driveability, power/torque curve can be affected, and theoretically 1,0l should be less affected than 1,2l as it needs less air, but it depends also on airflow throught intake (intercooler, manifold, etc). Second question is reliability, as increasing turbo speed can increase power, but affect turbo life...
Sorry for probably stupid questions :)Quote:
Originally Posted by br21
Is the turbo pressure limited by the rules?
If not is the turbo pressure determined purely by reliability (and cost limit) and not by the maximum restrictor flow?
Yep, wrong me; still that 50kg advantage will vanish in January and every kg matter in top level rally.Quote:
Originally Posted by br21
Can this fiesta R3 do testrallies before it is homologation next year ?
Latest Absolute Rally podcast with a good discussion on Rally3 and if its really going to be worthwhile:
https://www.absoluterally.co.uk/
https://www.podbean.com/eu/pb-cyiv2-f2b69a
For sure they can negotiate to drive as VIP or zero cars somewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine-110
How come minimum weight on these is lower than R5/Rally2? Do R5 carry ballast?
Nothing to stop them doing National Rallies, as long as the car complies with the technical rules of the country concerned. I'm pretty sure they'd be OK on a National event in the UK, if they hadn't been stopped because of Covid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine-110
Yes. Finland (and few other countries) have class for "Future FIA cars"Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine-110
R5/Rally2 is 1.6LQuote:
Originally Posted by RS
Fiesta Rally3 is 1.5L (and Renault/PSA probably 1.2L)
There are probably also some "tecnical parts" which add minimum weigh
(in past paddle shift was +50kg etc)
My question:
Is Rally3 using 18" tarmac wheels or smaller like Rally4 is using?
Anyone who cant/hasnt listened to the AR Podcast, there was a consensus that the Rally3 car doesnt really make sense for the following reasons:
1. The rally 'ladder' isnt really used - no-one really goes up this step by step.
2. A top impressive young driver can go from (old class) R2 2wd to R5 4wd car quite easily, no need to adapt before
3. Such drivers, or rich gentlemen drivers', just want to get in an R5 asap as this is the class to be seen in and with the extra power
4. Money-wise people would also rather have a used R5 than a new Rally3
5. What is the competition in Rally3 without other manufacturer's
It has the sense when JWRC will be done with Rally3 cars... And of course there will be other manufacturers too, only Ford is first again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Exactly, the car is made for JWRC and it seems that it has a potential to bring the JWRC championship to a whole new level similar to what was known 15 years ago. Except for that it can work in gravel countries but I don't expect it to be very popular in asphalt ones.
I think this is a weird argument considering they've repeated for years that R5's are too expensive for national leagues and that's why BRC has too low entry numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
When you go from Rally4 (R2) to Rally2 (R5) not only the budgets get much higher, but the cars also start going a lot faster, and you also need to learn driving 4WD and setting up the car at the same time (Rally4 cars have very limited setup capabilities, which will be similar in Rally3).
Especially if we start having Rally3 as common cars in the second tier national and ERC leagues, I see them very useful. Nowadays these second tier leagues are still filled with Evo's and Imprezas, which are quite outdated by now. I would also assume Rally3 is closer to Rally2 in feeling, compared to N4/R4 cars with bigger chassises and engines.
I see (used) Rally3 as replacement for Mitsu/Subaru on national level.