WRC Driver Conduct On Road Sections - Case Tänak at Monte Carlo

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Originally Posted by the sniper

On a rally where hundreds of people form a wall of death on the outside of a slippery 6th gear corner, people are morally outraged by Ott relatively slowly passing a couple of fans on the road section with a bit of opposite lock on.

Don't worry, I'm sure he won't have any fun for fans again.

It's kind of funny that of all the shenanigans and highly dubious practices that have occurred on road sections over the years, this non-event is the one that got people outraged!

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Not the same though. If John Doe wants to risk his own life by standing in a dangerous position on a stage, then so be it. Survival of the fittest.
If a rally driver speeds, drifts, do whatever on a road section, causing an incident that injures, or even kill someone on their way home from shopping groceries, that's something completely different.

That wouldn't happen here, and have not happened either. However, were do you draw the line on what rules that are ok to break, and what rules you cannot break.

And of course, there will be a difference in what's actually allowed depending on what country you are driving in.

BUT THERE WAS NOBODY AROUND! Apart from those fans in a safe place.

Agree with you that Ott shouldn't drive on this particular place like he drove but when I looked to this way more dangerous driving on this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtsMe_X35XI , I'm just wondering why this didn't bring up the safety discussion like we are having now. Because he is multiple World Champion or?

Nono.. it was a really-really dangerous situation.. I bet that if Latvala finished 2nd and Tanak 3rd, then many FIN fans wouldn't be so b**theart about it..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz-qD-hfCOU
Where were you then?

I see neutral steering on a snowy/icy road.
The safest way through.

Obviously Ott Tanak is a threat to some.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/4de65e44...oo1_r3_540.gif

You can talk that it’s safe, just for fun, Ott is a pro, car is set up for this… etc etc etc. But you know this is all bullshit! It’s just bad example, any rally driver should not do this. It does no good to our beloved sport.

https://youtu.be/PTk1ocYcBUE?t=2m29s
can you see how close he passes the kids?? opening door while driving on narrow streets? and driving in the middle of road so that other cars have to stop?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT8pg0xEQ4I
this shows that most of the drives are maniacs?!! passing while double lines..

oh my..

From some of the comments I read, it seems it's completely acceptable to kill one guy just because others have killed thousands in the past and got away with it.

Bad doesn't become good only because there's worse in the world, you know?!?!

And this isn't anything against Tanak in particular, it's against breaking the rules on public road. So all of them should be penalized, not only him.

Politically correct crap for people who failed to go through manhood... tough luck kids.

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Originally Posted by smsgrafica

From some of the comments I read, it seems it's completely acceptable to kill one guy just because others have killed thousands in the past and got away with it.

Bad doesn't become good only because there's worse in the world, you know?!?!

And this isn't anything against Tanak in particular, it's against breaking the rules on public road. So all of them should be penalized, not only him.

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Which rule? Does anyone know french rules? Just out of interest

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

+1

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+ another 1

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Originally Posted by AnttiK7

No, just a ban from competition for a certain time period and probably also driving license away by simply following the country's road traffic rules where the infringement happened.

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Its illegal to use phone or even hands free in france. Should we take away Ogiers and Mikkelsens driving license aswell then ? Or all the WRC drivers who speaked to the team on the road section ??

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Originally Posted by AnttiK7

If you are a rally fan standing there when Ott does this, it can be fun to watch for a moment until you realise the repercussions it can have for the whole sport.

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I’m a huge fan of your rally videos, but you're making a storm in a tea cup. For sure there are some reasonable arguments on your claim, but if the purpose was to bring this subject in order to prevent general public recrimination on rallysport, I’m afraid you may end having the opposite result.

Btw, if the debate keeps going, please let’s stop posting others videos. Like sms wrote before, this isn’t about driver A or B (hope so), and the thread is already messy enough.

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Originally Posted by smsgrafica

From some of the comments I read, it seems it's completely acceptable to kill one guy just because others have killed thousands in the past and got away with it.

Bad doesn't become good only because there's worse in the world, you know?!?!

And this isn't anything against Tanak in particular, it's against breaking the rules on public road. So all of them should be penalized, not only him.

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Your metaphor is inappropriate. You could answer which rules he broke? Please.

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Originally Posted by Rally Power

I’m a huge fan of your rally videos but you're making a storm in a tea cup. For sure there are some reasonable arguments on your claim, but if the purpose was to bring this subject in order to prevent general public recrimination on rallysport I’m afraid you may end having the opposite result.

Btw, if the debate keeps going, please let’s stop posting others videos. Like sms wrote before, this isn’t about driver A or B, and the thread is already messy enough.

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Streisandeffect?

I agree that rally drivers shouldnt do those things in between stages. If you want to see a rally car at full speed just see it on stages.
Tanak has everything under control, no doubt about that. But he has to behave as a normal road car at that point.
Ogier showing of in Wales is what fans want to see there, was a closed of space, i'm not saying that was a safe situation, but was not public road.
Use of phones during driving also cant be accepted.

That`s the case, it wasn`t rally speed, even not maximum allowed roadspeed. Just a normal situation on a slippery curve, especially when you have a 380bhp rallycar with on/off clutch and throttle, in a setup really not suitable for winter (18/65-18 tyres, stiff) plus have to slow down to assess the situation ("great" place to stop a car indeed). And when a 4wd is already going sideways you push the pedal even more to stear it. Simple physics. Latvala himself compared those roadconditions on Saturday, saying that it`s bad even in a roadcar and much worse for them.

Wales was far more worse, because that fence couldn`t hold a falling 100 kg person, let alone a rallycar having fun, faster than in this episode probably.

interesting to see other crews in this place, maybe all cars drifting a little, because you must warm up brakes temperature before the start.

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

Streisandeffect?

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Not quite. I see it more as digging up dirt on rally; hard to get positive results from it.

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Originally Posted by Rally Power

Not quite. I see it more as digging up dirt on rally; hard to get positive results from it.

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That is kind of Streisandeffect. Inverted.

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Originally Posted by Tarmop

That`s the case, it wasn`t rally speed, even not maximum allowed roadspeed. Just a normal situation on a slippery curve, especially when you have a 380bhp rallycar with on/off clutch and throttle, in a setup really not suitable for winter (18/65-18 tyres, stiff) plus have to slow down to assess the situation ("great" place to stop a car indeed). And when a 4wd is already going sideways you push the pedal even more to stear it. Simple physics. Latvala himself compared those roadconditions on Saturday, saying that it`s bad even in a roadcar and much worse for them.

Wales was far more worse, because that fence couldn`t hold a falling 100 kg person, let alone a rallycar having fun, faster than in this episode probably.

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Oh come on. As if he didn't know at what speed/throttle-position/steering-lock the car would start to go sideways. That's a miserable excuse, he clearly knew what he was doing. If he was going over or under the speedlimit is not relevant, it was dangerous behavour. Besides, every roadlaw in the world says to adjust the speed to the roadcondition and a bunch of paragraphs considering dangerous manouvers.

To put it simple, had he run someone over and killed that person sliding in that corner he would go to prison for negligent homicide.

Oh well...
For the tenth time, there was nobody to endanger, he slowed down and assessed the situation before. Ofc he could have gone more slowly, he could have even pushed his car. Every car goes a bit sideways from time to time in these kind of conditions. If you haven`t driven in such conditions i can understand you.

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Originally Posted by Rally Power

Not quite. I see it more as digging up dirt on rally; hard to get positive results from it.

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How is it digging dirt up on rally if I point out an issue in a WRC driver code of conduct, which has a possibility to cause serious problems for rallying in the future? I'm just pointing the dirt and suggesting that the dirt is cleaned up now when it's still small and not left alone. I'd much rather FIA took action now against something like this and not against something much more serious and damaging for the sport in the future which could have been prevented earlier. Because this kind of stuff is completely unnecessary for the sport, it has nothing to do with it.

I am as passionate about rallying as the next guy, but I think that passion must be still controlled somehow and not allowed to cloud common sense altogether. And besides showboating in public roads has nothing to do with passion for rallying to me, not even if I am looking at it only with my rally passion glasses firmly on. Maybe it's also a cultural difference in some cases. I know the story of an Italian spectator who was so happy to have their leg broken by Walter Röhrl in San Remo 1984 and admittedly it's a bit different to my concept of passion towards rallying. And I am afraid the more we have this kind of "passion" for rallying, the sooner the sport will die.

My friends, you can all put your black dresses on next rally , take your signs #metoo and go and have a meeting in front of Toyota or FIA. Doesn't help much this whining here!

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Originally Posted by AnttiK7

How is it digging dirt up on rally if I point out an issue in a WRC driver code of conduct, which has a possibility to cause serious problems for rallying in the future? I'm just pointing the dirt and suggesting that the dirt is cleaned up now when it's still small and not left alone. I'd much rather FIA took action now against something like this and not against something much more serious and damaging for the sport in the future which could have been prevented earlier. Because this kind of stuff is completely unnecessary for the sport, it has nothing to do with it.

I am as passionate about rallying as the next guy, but I think that passion must be still controlled somehow and not allowed to cloud common sense altogether. And besides showboating in public roads has nothing to do with passion for rallying to me, not even if I am looking at it only with my rally passion glasses firmly on. Maybe it's also a cultural difference in some cases. I know the story of an Italian spectator who was so happy to have their leg broken by Walter Röhrl in San Remo 1984 and admittedly it's a bit different to my concept of passion towards rallying. And I am afraid the more we have this kind of "passion" for rallying, the sooner the sport will die.

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Genuine question pal: have you considered contacting Toyota or the FIA to voice your concerns?
If you really are serious about protecting the sport and you feel driving like this will damage it, then surely you had better aim your views at them, rather than this message board.

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Originally Posted by Tarmop

Oh well...
For the tenth time, there was nobody to endanger, he slowed down and assessed the situation before. Ofc he could have gone more slowly, he could have even pushed his car. Every car goes a bit sideways from time to time in these kind of conditions. If you haven`t driven in such conditions i can understand you.

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Of course the people were in danger. As you like to point out the road was very slippery. I spend enough time of the year in those weather conditions to know how easy it is to trip over and fall on my face. That could have happened to those people standing behind the stranded car. Or Tanak could've lost control. You see how quickly drivers misjudge a corner by all the slipups and spins in the actual rally.

I think some of you guys think they'd be disloyal to the whole sport if you raised your hand and said 'That is no good'. But it isn't. It puts the sport in a bad light if you persist defending this or any other dangerous behaviour on roadstages.

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Originally Posted by sidrun

My friends, you can all put your black dresses on next rally , take your signs #metoo and go and have a meeting in front of Toyota or FIA. Doesn't help much this whining here!

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Nothing that is ever said here makes any change. That's not why we're here. We're here to discuss opinions. Some more civilised than others.

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Originally Posted by sidrun

My friends, you can all put your black dresses on next rally , take your signs #metoo and go and have a meeting in front of Toyota or FIA. Doesn't help much this whining here!

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I really don't understand the need to bring up completely different and very serious issues to this topic, while making fun of them. We are here to talk about rallying.

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Originally Posted by T16

Genuine question pal: have you considered contacting Toyota or the FIA to voice your concerns?
If you really are serious about protecting the sport and you feel driving like this will damage it, then surely you had better aim your views at them, rather than this message board.

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Toyota no, but FIA yes definitely. I would love to get a proper FIA clarification on this and how it is in line with their road traffic safety campaigns. And as far as I can see the point of the existence of this forum is to share our opinions and raise discussion about various things related to rallying, so I don't see any problem here whatsoever. Even if nothing happens because of these discussions, now more people are aware of the whole issue and the snowball rolls. It was only because the link was posted on another forum that I even found out about this myself. It more seems like the problem is that I have undesirable views on the matter for some people.

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Originally Posted by AnttiK7

So just because the world has far more serious issues than Ott Tänak showing off with his Yaris in the French alps, we shouldn't be discussing about it on a forum dedicated to rallying and we should talk about the US politics on here instead? And I'd prefer if everyone left out all the silly sexist comments as well from the discussion.

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I didn't say we shouldn't discuss..Don't twist words and pretend I did then pretend outrage.

I suggested that you are over-reacting in overblown outrage..Like what we call "drama-queens".

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Special stages are for fast rally driving and also for showboating for the fans, if you want to do that kind of stuff. You can make big slides all you want or make extra big jumps for the fans all you want on the special stages. Remember Panizzi doing a 360 donut in the middle of a stage on his way to winning Rally Catalunya? But liaison sections are for driving according to the road traffic rules. As simple and clear as that.

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Thank you for explaining all that..Excellent job of mansplianing.
:rolleyes:

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None of that bullshit what Tänak gives us on the video. If the special stages are not enough for him, then it's time for him to hand in his competition license

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Simple as that... black or white..One thing or the other...just like your exaggeration above

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For the past few years FIA has being campaigning very heavily on road traffic safety and turning a blind eye to this kind of behavior would be hypocritical in my opinion, as well as damaging for the sport in the long run.

So if I as a rally fan am worked up about someone doing that, then what is someone who doesn't care about rallying at all going to think about when coming across this type of antics and showmanship on a public road?

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I cannot say what a non-rally fan is going think...that is an absurd question. I can say that my experience with non-fans is this : it doesn't matter ANYTHING anybody does...simple logic. They are already anti-rally, and as we see in "real life" almost nothing changes people's minds...The mere presence of a car with a lot of stickers and crackly exhaust probably already "triggers" outrage in them...regardless of what the car does...or doesn't do...people are not particularly rational.

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All sponsored by Toyota and Microsoft. Not exactly the best publicity for the sport, to say the least. And that is the main issue here.

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Agreed..Not the best publicity..
But hardly anything to get at all excited about....a little squiggle on a hugely wide smooth road..people not even laughing just a little snicker from what we can hear..those present didn't seem upset at all..
Maybe take that as a hint of much you should be reacting...

Rather than jumping up and down writing pages and pages of angry indignation.
Learn from the French. giggle, shrug and get on with life..
(I say this not as a spectator or a fan but as a competitor who spent 2 seasons racing in France. After 7-8 years in a country equally Lutheran to where you live. Things are different in different countries, not better or worse, just different. Learn to roll the eyes back, smile and shrug)0

The WRC needs to do anything it can to attain and keep a positive image. This doesn't help at all.

Anyone want a drink?

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Originally Posted by Franky

Anyone want a drink?

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no, it is dangerous and leaves bad image to rally forum

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Originally Posted by TypeR

no, it is dangerous and leaves bad image to rally forum

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Okay, no tea for you today.

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Originally Posted by AnttiK7

I really don't understand the need to bring up completely different and very serious issues to this topic, while making fun of them. We are here to talk about rallying.



Toyota no, but FIA yes definitely. I would love to get a proper FIA clarification on this and how it is in line with their road traffic safety campaigns. And as far as I can see the point of the existence of this forum is to share our opinions and raise discussion about various things related to rallying, so I don't see any problem here whatsoever. Even if nothing happens because of these discussions, now more people are aware of the whole issue and the snowball rolls. It was only because the link was posted on another forum that I even found out about this myself. It more seems like the problem is that I have undesirable views on the matter for some people.

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You talk about road safety campaigns, but why dont you want to put also Ogier as example for others that its not good for sport. Ogier was using his phone while driving and we all saw it in live. This kind of behavour is straitly regulated by law in France and you must give away your driving-license. In Tanaks case we even dont now what law will say about little slide in slippy contitions...
5 time world champion will be much more useful example for others.
Its funny that most of you, who want that only Tanak must be punished are finns(Jari-Matti fans)....smile and life will be much more nicer 😉

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

Maybe take that as a hint of much you should be reacting...

Rather than jumping up and down writing pages and pages of angry indignation.
Learn from the French. giggle, shrug and get on with life..
(I say this not as a spectator or a fan but as a competitor who spent 2 seasons racing in France. After 7-8 years in a country equally Lutheran to where you live. Things are different in different countries, not better or worse, just different. Learn to roll the eyes back, smile and shrug)0

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I don't use the reactions of other people, rally fans or not, as a guideline on how I should react to things. Also I don't believe in rolling my eyes back, smiling and shrugging at everything in life. If there's something I care about and what means something to me and I disagree with something then no, that's not the way to go nor is it something I would suggest for anyone. And I am yet to jump up and down in anger about this and it's nothing to get a heart attack over, but in the context of WRC it is very much an issue.

i would ask people who think it was dangerous and Ott should be banned, do you think the same when you watch the Tour de France and see the team cars passing by spectators very close at speeds over 50kph sometime?

Only when it`s not their favorite.

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Originally Posted by spiderem

i would ask people who think it was dangerous and Ott should be banned, do you think the same when you watch the Tour de France and see the team cars passing by spectators very close at speeds over 50kph sometime?

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I am not fan of Tour de France, they can do what they want there. But I am fan of rallysport. And I am also part of organisation. I know how people are starting to be against rally everywhere. And behaviour during recce and on liaisons is one of their biggest arguments. Year by year there are problems with approving the stages. We must make picture of rallysport to be more friendly to normal people, who dont like the sport. Dont give them so stupid arguments to be against rallysport.

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Originally Posted by PLuto

I am not fan of Tour de France, they can do what they want there. But I am fan of rallysport. And I am also part of organisation. I know how people are starting to be against rally everywhere. And behaviour during recce and on liaisons is one of their biggest arguments. Year by year there are problems with approving the stages. We must make picture of rallysport to be more friendly to normal people, who dont like the sport. Dont give them so stupid arguments to be against rallysport.

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However Otts driving is not the example that will get the antirally people yelling hurray. Need to be something else.