It is true throughout car racing that, absent the lead car altering their line to block, it is ALWAYS the overtaking car's responsibility to avoid contact. That includes restart laps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia 01
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It is true throughout car racing that, absent the lead car altering their line to block, it is ALWAYS the overtaking car's responsibility to avoid contact. That includes restart laps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia 01
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia 01
So Lewis provoked him because he slowed down and should not have done so.... so that Seb could stay much closer to him and increase his chances of jumping him on the restart?
You are joking right?
Yup, Lewis started it.
Mia, if Vettel felt the same as you, then he most certainly should not have apologized and taken full responsibility for the incident. He should have continued to argue that (illogical) point and stood his ground. Let the cards fall where they may.
In other news, Jean Todt will not be at the Austrian Grand Prix this weekend. He'll be singing in a classical boys' choir as a castrati.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxIzGC0zJe0Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia 01
i hope you can now amend your statements after this press conference.
It is weird when the driver himself admits all the wrongdoing but your dislike of Hamilton still sees you blame Lewis.
laughable if not so sad
It's not just in racing where Sebastian receives special treatment. This forum used to have a thread titled "Vettel showing his true personality" which held some great discussions negative and positive, however one of the moderators "decided" to close it because they didn't like what the contributors had to say. Essentially a gag order.
I think Vettel does feel the same as Mia, and that's why he gave a rather mealy-mouthed apology when ordered to by the FIA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
That doesn't mean they are right of course!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyL
Yes, I think so too.
As a 'star' it must be very difficult to remain grounded and not end up a bit up yourself, when effectively living in an echo chamber with everyone surrounding you constantly agreeing with you and telling you what they think you want to hear.
I think very few would remain immune to that.
He needs to take a course in "method" acting .
It would perhaps help him stay in character for the whole weekend .
Mr. Vettel is making no fans right now .
So the FIA did not think Vettel should be punished. So l hope they do not punish any other driver that does the same.
Unless the car trailing has passed the B-pillar, it is always 100% the fault of the car behind for running into the back of the car behind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia 01
Lewis could have come to a complete stop and still would not be in the wrong. The car behind was travelling too close and failed to avoid an accident.
Are you trying to apply the rules of the public highway to racing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
If Lewis had brake-checked Vettel, then Lewis would certainly have been in the wrong.
From BBC..
Todt said: "People say he had already a warning after Mexico. This is true, but it was a completely different matter. He lost control and was insulting one of the stewards. It was a different category.
"So on the first category he has no more joker, on the second category he has no more joker."
What gives... I'm guessing they don't want to upset Ferrari?
What if he loses control in a third 'category'... such as choking Valteri out on the podium, Jean?
Why? Because Vettel was following too closely? You should be at a distance that you're able to pull up in time no matter what the car in front does.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyL
On the road, yes. Not in a race.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
Something that should also be said is that Vettel has a history of occasional lapses in his concentration at times you wouldn't expect a professional racing driver to crash. He did crash into Webber under safety car conditions in Japan 2007 (incidentally, caused by Hamilton's swerving), and also hit a car he was lapping at a Malaysian Grand Prix a few years ago. Of course it's not something that happens every race, but it's not the first time that he makes odd mistakes.
He also got a penalty for not keeping the appropriate distance to the safety car in Hungary a few years ago. He was as graceful about it as ever. It seems safety cars are challenging for him.
Maybe he's slightly colourblind when it comes to anything silver.
His eyes seem to play tricks on him as the silver cars seem to slow too quickly or start too fast.
Banned. How much use is it to post if you not agree. Another extension of Sebs lead this wekleend. I like it bu iīm not sure if i would like to chair my like, theirs to much hate.
Well Mia you chaired your like, and you did it on this thread. Most contributors on this thread think that Seb got off too easy. I happen to be one of them. Mine is simply an opinion. Having said that I believe he deserved a more substantial penalty. Excluding him from that race seems appropriateQuote:
Originally Posted by Mia 01
I'll always defend your right to an opinion , Mia .Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia 01
I may not agree , but it's important to hear both sides .
Is there a good reason why the FIA standards for Formula One should be worse? That is the standard for club racing and as far as I am aware, V8Supercars.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyL
I don't know where you're getting that from. It's never been the standard in any form of racing from club to international.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
You're talking about applying the 2-second rule to racing, which would make DRS kind of useless for starters, and slipstreaming would be impossible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
Actually, you are mistaken about that. It is always the responsibility of the car behind to avoid contact. I'll refer you to the Sports Car Club of America's General Competition Rules (GCR) to confirm. SCCA is the largest sanctioning body for club racing in the world, so it's not just some off the wall local group.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyL
In the case of brake checking, that would be covered under unsportsmanlike conduct.
So if you're slipstreaming someone, and the car in front makes a mistake, let's say misses a gear, resulting in you colliding with the back of him, you would expect to be penalised by the stewards? That's a new one on me.
I've watched a lot of racing at a lot of different levels and I've never seen a form where drivers always leave a gap to the car in front, just in case the guy ahead hits the brakes or has a problem.
Is this what you're referring to, 6.11.1 D:Quote:
Originally Posted by Starter
That's clearly a rule about overtaking, not about how closely you should follow.Quote:
The overtaking driver is responsible for the decision to pass another car and to accomplish it safely. The overtaken driver is responsible to be aware that he is being passed and not to impede or block the overtaking car. A driver who does not use his rear view mirror or who appears to be blocking another car attempting to pass may be black flagged and/or penalized, as specified in Section 7.
I never said anything about following closely, just that it is the overtaking drivers responsibility to avoid contact. There are always extenuating circumstances and you can parse the hell out of most anything if you try.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyL
I think you misread the conversation you jumped into then. Rollo said that "You should be at a distance that you're able to pull up in time no matter what the car in front does," I disagreed that this was a standard in any form of racing, and you said I was wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starter
Vettel wasn't trying to overtake Hamilton when he ran into the back of the Mercedes, so rules on overtaking aren't really relevant.
I vote Vettel must be banned from racing for life. His driver license, Netflix, and Amazon Prime membership must be revoked for at least five years.
Can I drop in that it wasn't insignificant that Hamilton got off the hook in this because he acted the same way he had acted on the first restart ?Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyL
The data said he acted within his rights as a driver .
We should be able to extend that logic to say that , had he slowed more , he might have moved into the realm of being penalized , himself .
Thus , we should be able to say that there is , indeed , some responsibility for the driver leading the pack into a restart to act in a safe manner .
Um, I think that when you run into somebody from the rear, you have overtaken them. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by AndyL
Remember this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1E4vgb4zBEg
Well, if Seb mistakenly believes that Valtteri picked up a towel meant for him after the race, yes, he might feel the need to lay hands on Bottas' neck. But as long as he gives a half-hearted apology afterward, I don't think the FIA should impose any sort of heavy penalty. I mean, afterall, Valtteri picking up that towel could be considered provocation. Sometimes ya just gotta choke a guy out when the need arises.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zico
I think not but there should be some punishments for this.
Good. Let's take this to it's logical conclusion:Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyL
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEx0ts5UQAA9PeN.jpg
Car in front here deliberately came to a stop.
Hamilton in the McLaren here is not in the wrong?
I can't really say. I don't remember that incident, I don't know what happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
However, if you were to tell me that the two cars were racing each other nose-to-tail at the time, and the Ferrari stopped in a situation where it would not normally be expected to stop, then I'd say the McLaren driver is blameless. I suspect the circumstances of that picture were nothing like that though.
I remeber, Lewis driving straight in to the back of Kimis car at Canadas grandprix 2008 i Think. Then justice, Lewis got a penalty. Kimis car was standing still.
it also involved Rosberg, who ran into the back of Hamilton right after that picture was taken:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbSL8edgC3Y
both Hamilton and Rosberg were apparently caught out by the pit lane exit being closed. You can just see the light change from red to green right after the second collision happened.
Only the dead horse in this instance is the credibility of Jean Todt's FIA. He should resign but l seriously doubt he would.Quote:
Originally Posted by N4D13