Facts are facts....except for those on the left. For them facts are things that back up their beliefs no matter if true or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
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Facts are facts....except for those on the left. For them facts are things that back up their beliefs no matter if true or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
Since when did figures from the Bureau of Labor Statistics become a "left wing source"??? Doing a bad imitation of Michele Bachmann just causes people to not take a fellow seriously, Anthony. If every statistical fact that you don't like must be denied, and somehow feeds into some kind of dopey, half-thought out conspiracy theory, well... people will just think you're kind of goofy. Ya know? :dozey:
http://img104.imagevenue.com/loc492/..._122_492lo.jpg
Jobs Created in Thousands President Political Party
8,592 Jimmy Carter Democrat
*To read additional information, click on United States Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Political Party QuizQuote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
The Left.... on which axis?
I come out on all sorts of test as being being both extremely left and extremely right if more than one axis is involved.
If you insist on using such a glib coverall term, please define it.
Facts are facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
But silly people saying "You're wrong. Try again" is not a fact. It is an assertion..and without anything to back up an assertion it is useless.
And you arguing about Carter is not on topic. They are off topic.
rules are rules and
Recently we saw this:
Quote:
pino http://www.motorsportforums.com/imag...ser-online.png Moderator http://www.motorsportforums.com/avat...ine=1308475491 Join DateJan 2002LocationSanremo ItalyPosts23,907
:p aper:Just a note to everyone :
From now on all off-topic or personal comments will be punished with a month ban !
See you in a month.. :imubash: if of course Pino applies his warnings fairly.
Now, back to 2012 presidential Elections.
It seems Willard thinks everybody has as poor a memory as he has.. Not being very original or creative--or knowing his base can't remember last week much less 4 years ago, or 30 years ago, he's recycling Reagans
Are you better off now than....."
Well my creaky memory says the US was losing 700,000 per month when Obama took office.
And I'd have to look, but I think the Dow-Jones was January 18, 2008 ......12,099.30 and now its September 7, 2012.....13,306.64
Now individually a lost job or not finding a good one is rough so the question "are YOU better off" is probably the wrong question. Maybe its like a soldier in a fox-hole on a front 1000 miles long. He may in a quiet sector and just comfy as can be.. or he may be under heavy artillery fire and know he's in a world of sheeet. But the simplistic question "well Private, are you better off today than you were 4 years ago?" may not be the question that is going to answer if THE WHOLE ARMY is going to win, and then he gets to survive.
So ain't losing 700,000 jobs a month.. Ain't as good as it could be but regardless of where you stand we cannot forget what McConnel said about their only goal is make sure Obabma is out of work in Jan 2013, that obstruction has been overt, obstruction of almost any and any proposal the tea-Bagger infected Rebublicans themselves didn't draft.
And obstruction of proposals in fact that are identical to their own proposal as the Obamacare was drafted by the same person as worked for Romney in Massachusetts, and that was the same guy who drafted the 1994 Republican plan.
It was OK in 1994 when it was Republican Plan
It was OK when it was Romneys plan
Same plan is totalitarian when the title page has somebody elses' name on it..
So are you better off?
I'm not.
Are WE better off?
I don't know.
But I do know returning those who let their close friends and relations gorge themselves into delirium to the point that they had brought the entire financial system to within hours of collapse isn't an option.
And while Obama has a lot of friends amongst the savages of Wall Street, he knows there is another side to the world.
One of the problems with getting into a debate with anthonyvop is that he never says things like "I see your point but..." or "That's a fair point" or "Yes, well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one". He only seems to debate with people he completely disagrees with, and gives the impression that he thinks they are total idiots (gives the impression to me, anyway). There's another Republican party supporter on here who often does that too. Not sure if that's a pattern.
I try to follow donkey jote's advice of "never argue with a fool, other people won't know the difference", which makes me wonder why anthonyvop bothers to debate points with people whose viewpoint he has no respect for. So, it's a pity, 'cause he's most likely someone who you could sit down and have a beer with. So it goes...
Well for Vop isn't it obvious? Anybody to the left of Ghengis Kahn is a filthy dirty socialist and deserves to dieQuote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
But again this is veering off topic...Presidential Elections mmmm-kay?
How about the 1978 Airline Deregulation Act, or the 1980 Motor Carrier Act or the 1980 Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act?Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Those three acts deregulated the Airlines, the Trucking Industry and the Finance Industry.
You should like all of those.
And all those things went to hell with catastrophic losses for millions, yeah deregulation, Great!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
Well I know this and you know this, but deregulation is a free-market policy. The lifting of regulation to a laissez-faire position is rightist by definition.Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
From Mr Vop's point of view, the removal of regulation must be a good thing because it must have encouraged greater efficiencies in those industries.
Just be thankful AVop hasn't been posting the race-baiting rhetoric that got the entire off topic section of specialstage.com shut down during the last election because no one had the balls to ban him.
Romney spent the weekend moving back to the center, particularly on health care. On one hand pledging to repeal 'Obamacare' and on the other saying he wants to keep key provisions such as protecting people from 'preexisting condition' clauses and allowing children to stay on parents' plans well into their 20s.
The President got a bear hug from a registered Republican.
Obama gets airborne bear hug - YouTube
You better have something to back up that allegation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregor-y
:laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by FIAT1
I saw this knee jerk reaction coming from you! :D
FYI I left that country 14 years ago and I live in the capital city with the highest quality of life around the globe, because I am not a nationalist and will not accept anything that is not meeting my expectations. :)
Get a mirror and take a good look into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
There were a couple of good things in the healthcare bill. It went on for twenty two hundred some pages, there should have been a couple good things along with the junk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregor-y
No one should be surprised that Romney is moving to the center, that's where most Americans are anyway and it's his history too. I realize he had to run from the right just to get the nomination, that is the unfortunate way American politics are these days on both sides.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Ok than, keep on barking. Label me all you want , I'm happy here!
Not sure why you are getting so worked up again, but hey more freedom to you, just so you can express yourself freely around here! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by FIAT1
I see, you found little time in the middle of freedom activist movement to play frendly game of tag, okay you're at!Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Here, news about your kind of freedom:Quote:
Originally Posted by FIAT1
Guantanamo prisoner found dead, U.S. military says - Yahoo! News
The best part:
If he wasn't to be prosecuted then why is he kept prisoner in a US navy base?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahoo
USA=freedom?! Good joke!
If Obama couldn't close the Guantanamo 'surfing' facility then none of your presidents will do it, whomever you elect.
You know what? You're right. That was someone else who wrote offensive posts. It was rallytaff. Sorry about that; my bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
[quote="ioan"] The best part:
Typical attitude of those on the left. You apology is not accepted and you should be ashamed of yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregor-y
The Republican right also includes the Tea Party which is bordering on lunacy and the Christian Right who for the most part are economically illiterate, don't really read scripture but can be whipped into a mawkish frenzy by mentioning "abortion" or "gay marriage".Quote:
Originally Posted by Starter
Actually I find it somewhat strange that there's a push to remove the mention of God from every single government institution but immediately before any election the political parties do their little dance to make the Christian Right vote for them. There's almost a cognitive dissonance about it.
Romney has to perform an interesting dance with the right. Economically he pretty well much lives there, but to be electable he's had to make himself appear as though he understands normal people.
"Our desk was a door propped up on saw horses, our dining room table was a fold-down ironing board in the kitchen. But those were the best days." - Ann Romney at the RNC
I'm not sure if I exactly believe that story but it sounds emotive enough and considering that almost no serious journalistic fact-checking is going on, no-one will find out either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregor-y
I was going to point that out to you. There was one point before I became disgusted with the selective and petty so called moderating there that the decrepit bag of bones, that turncoat who swore allegiance to his Queen who then on a whim, just chucked that over the shoulder, and abandoned the land ofg his birth to come and plague us here, he had filled the first one and a half full pages at 'threads" of "Off Topics" with FreeRebublic.org type headlines, Headlines like "Worse than Nazis..BLM closing an off road vehicle area!!!!!" and other insane drivel and then links and no comments to various extremist hate sites and of course no responses to any of his threads..
So while its the same style and tone and "depth" of analysis, and I could see how you could transpose them, it wasn't Vop..
Do you think you should ban yourself for making a typical left wing mistake, sure sounded like he was getting angry.
And apropos this thread, yep heard that... Some say its a shame, but I would bet they were screaming "flip-flop" when anybody else might have reverse course. These days it doesn't seem to matter, and the lib'ral press just sits passively by nodding Uh hum...
So should we start a list to remind everybody of the major WIllard flip flops?
It would be a mistake to characterize all people who have positions in the above two groups as either stupid or crazy. While it's true that some of the more rabid and extreme have taken front page (blame the media for overly sensationalizing), many are just nice people who have certain core beliefs, particularly on religious matters. I don't agree with them on many things, but I respect their positions. The Tea Party especially has been high jacked by the (relatively few) wackos when it was founded by more moderate people who were just disgusted with both major political parties.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
You haven't been paying close attention. You have it backwards. An interesting dance, true, but the other way. Romney actually has a record and as Governor of Massachusetts was in the center. He needs the support of the right to get elected. I think you also confuse being successful in business as automatically meaning he can't or won't be mindful of people who work for a living. A false premise - see Warren Buffett or Bill Gates (as well as many others) for examples. Try and cut through the garbage. The Democrats and left throw out just as much crap as the republicans and the right.Quote:
Romney has to perform an interesting dance with the right. Economically he pretty well much lives there, but to be electable he's had to make himself appear as though he understands normal people.
Some people with memory will recall that the RNC who organsied in those days and may still a Monday morning conference call with all the favorite darling child talking heads of the AM radio would feed Rush and Hennity and that slimy Carlson twerp (my last wife was a classmate and said he was a little weasly brown-nosing punk then) and Beck, all the prime sources of all knowledge for some, their weekly "key words" for them to repeat constantly---and about 18 months before the last election when it looked pretty clear that the Bush/Cheny crime family had poisoned things for Republicans, they all simultaneously began repeating "They're all corrupt, ALL of them".....
So some may say "many are just nice people who have certain core beliefs, particularly on religious matters." and some could counter that if they are misled and delusional and paranoid in one area, it should not be surprising that they are delusional and paranoid and easily misled in any other. Earth is 6439 years, check. man lived with dinosaurs, check, Son of Gawd talks in their ear, check, Obama is a Nazi dictator using armies of illegal Mexicans, to build FEMA camps with Death Panels where all Patriots will be herded as soon as they're disarmed because he is a Muslim Kenyan Communist, check.
In short maybe they are disgusted with both because the Koch Brothers and such like have decided that is one way to engender hate and contempt for the political process---since democracy stands in their way, and so the bought and paid for talking AM radio head obediently do their part.
You may say "it was founded by "more moderate" people, but even if that was true, and they weren't in the main religiously intolerant homophobic xenophobes then, it was hijacked, it IS high jacked and IS now a Koch Bros funded astro-turf movement.
As for a record in Taxachusetts, Willard never makes reference to it or his only worthwhile accomplishment while there: Romneycare..A whole convention and not one syllable on his Governorship from him or anybody.. Of course not a word on Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, ....
As for "being successful in business as automatically meaning he can't or won't be mindful of people who work for a living."
din't he already say "I like firing people"
Man of the people!! :s tareup: :love: :rotflmao:
Pizza shop owner greets Obama with bear hug - YouTube
Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
I'll quote these in case you change your posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Don't worry. I won't. You have brought shame to yourself by you cowardly, lies and disingenuous apology.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregor-y
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
You are right. Free Markets, Fiscal Responsibility and Constitutionally Limited Government is the stuff of madness.
Please note the sarcasm.
Oddly enough one of the ads popping up on this thread is for Atlas Shrugged II. Even John Travolta knew better than to pursue Battlefield Earth any farther.
Politically, Rmoney's given up on Michigan and Pennsylvania (Mainly because Pittsburgh and Philadelphia outweigh the backwoods area in between) and falling behind in Ohio, which has already been identified as critical. I do hope Howard Dean's 50 state strategy is still being used since I hate to see divisions being played up in the country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop http://www.motorsportforums.com/imag...post-right.png
Typical attitude of those on the left. You apology is not accepted and you should be ashamed of yourself.
http://www.motorsportforums.com/imag...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Don't worry. I won't. You have brought shame to yourself by you cowardly, lies and disingenuous apology.
Gee, gregori, that first quote sure looks like an off topic personal attack, and the second one is pretty personal and off topic andQuote:
Originally Posted by Gregor-y
looks like harrassment..
Do you remember Pino write like last week was it:
Recently we saw this:
pino http://www.motorsportforums.com/imag...ser-online.png Moderator Join Date Jan 2002LocationSanremo ItalyPosts23,907
2Just a note to everyone :
From now on all off-topic or personal comments will be punished with a month ban !
See you in a month..if of course Pino applies his warnings fairly.
Are you just going to ignore that so we can discuss the elections?
I think you should ask Pino in the sense of responsibility---its sorta appropriate to the "conservitude attitude" that they should be punished severely for their sins.
I know this is Presidential Elections but I keep digging for what's up in the Congress, particularly the House....
But right now seems we have to think of the pres especially in light of upcoming Supreme Court appointments.
The mind shudders to think of what sort of kooks and weird-Os a kook and weird-o like Willard could dream up..
Gee, hope all those people who live in places like Harrisburg, State College, Erie, Allentown, Scranton, etc. don't read that and finally realize what dopes they are. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregor-y
No worries. I did make a pretty big (and inaccurate) statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
I grew up in Pittsburgh and spent plenty of time in the hinterlands chasing trains and hiking abandoned lines with my Dad through the 80s and early 90s. I feel pretty comfortable with my assessment, though yes, there are a few of the built up areas that are sensible, though not all of the ones you listed are And you forgot Johnstown and Altoona. Other than the massive year-round humidity and regularly overcast skies it's a great state for anyone interested in history and geology. I'm working myself up to bike at least the Allegheny Passage from Pittsburgh to Cumberland on the abandoned Western Maryland next spring, maybe also the C&O canal towpath all the way to Washington. I'm following a blog of two people that just started the trip from Erie and am curious what their path to Pittsburgh is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starter
You forgot Johnstown and Altoona. I grew up in Pittsburgh and spent plenty of time chasing trains and hiking roadbeds all over the state in the 80s with my dad so I feel pretty comfortable with my statement, though there are a few exceptions in some built up areas. Not Scranton, though.
Voting for Obama this November reminds me of the saying....
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me...
What is really scary is to think the people of this country would in fact re-elect Obama. Well if they do the republican party as we know it today will be gone and maybe that would not be a bad thing if we can't somehow get a "Middle" party going.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roamy
Forget middle as it now stands, how about a party that represents, wage earners, not corporations and big finance..
And to borrow a line from Shakespeare "First, let's kill all the lobbyists"
Actually to me that would be a Middle Party. And yes to the lobbyists - should I use my 10mm or 460 mag?Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
BTW do you include small business in the wage earner category?
If you take the (expressed) social values of the Democrats and the (expressed) economic values of the Republicans, you'd have a really good start.