Which rally should they add to the WRC-calendar?

There has been some murmur of Asian-Pacific Rallies on here. Here are my thoughts...

Australia
At the moment, I think the rally will be staying in Coffs Harbour. Despite losing the iconic stages, it is really the only option. Tourism Western Australia no longer supported WRC, thus why it ended up moving, and I believe some of the forests have changed ownership, making it hard. Coffs Harbour isn't the best place, however, suitable forests which have "Australian" natured roads, near one of our big cities is hard to find. Western Australia is very unique, and it would take a bucket load of money to get it back there without the support of the government...

New Zealand
I don't think there is any doubt of it leaving the calendar, but it is very much a shrinking car market, when we look at the rest of the world, which is why I'm guessing its on rotation at the moment sadly. Running Australia and NZ back to back is a good idea though. There were talks back in 2002 of having a start in Europe, and spending considerable time out of Europe, before returning for the European summer for a couple of events, and then for Wales Rally GB at the end of the year. That could work well for the AUS/NZ combo.

Japan
Obviously the number 1 in the Asian market, so you'd want to be there. Hokkaido (APRC/WRC) did get a bit tired in the end, but it was a awesome rally when the Japanese manufacturers were there. With Subaru having announced a 1.6L WRX STI and Toyota showing interest, it wouldn't be a bad time to look into rallying there again. The Alpine Rally is another option, except based closer to Tokyo and not out in the Gunma region. Instead maybe west of Tokyo, where there are plenty of mountain passes. I can imagine it being a successful rally in Japan due to the 'Touge' style. So I'd be looking at Otsuki region. Cleaner and less out in the Styx which the Japanese may prefer, and a far bigger population base to work off with Tokyo.

Malaysia
Malaysia is very unique, similar to the old Indonesian WRC round except without the sandy base. The clay base when wet is diabolical! It runs very close to Kuala Lumpur too. So definitely a possibility. A very slow rally when wet, and certainly a big challenge for drivers. Getting numbers to this event is probably an issue, given that the Malay championship isn't huge.

China
It's been explored before, currently based a couple of hours away from Shanghai. Finding enough gravel roads would be tricky in that region, given they currently run stages on concrete town roads as well which would be far too fast for WRC cars!!! Could happen in the next decade as China continues to become a more developed economy.

Indonesia
Don't like its chances having been dropped from the APRC due to security concerns in Sulawesi. However, this is now a dry dusty rough rally, not the rally ran in the WRC. Small local championship too. The fact that Thailand has been re-introduced in the calendar for 2013, ahead of Indonesia speaks volumes, given Indonesia still has a bigger local championship.

Thailand
Having travelled to Phuket, I would very much doubt there would be a WRC rally there. Still getting there with development, and the gravel roads aren't graded that much. Currently, the Kings Cup Rally of Thailand is based an hour out of Bangkok, so pretty well placed, however, they do not have access to many roads (only 3-4 different stages reversed last year). Despite being a big builder of cars, Thailand again doesn't have the market for Euro brands considering how cheap it is to buy a Japanese car over there.

India
Hasn't been in the APRC for 7/8 years now. No local FIA homologated cars either.

Malcolm Wilson of M-Sport made a very interesting point during a Q&A at the Autosport Show recently, about the future shape of the World Rally Championship.

Wilson was asked about the “geographical spread” of WRC events and in his answer, he correctly pointed to emerging countries and the imperative to get WRC into countries such as China, Brazil, Russia in the future.

This makes eminent sense - not just for giving rallying truly global reach to potentially massive audiences but it also makes sense from the manufacturer’s perspective i.e. high-volume car sales in huge new markets.

If WRC is to survive, the fact is it has to ‘escape’ from being a predominantly European-based championship, into a truly global one.

However, this will not be as easy to deliver as it sounds.

It is unsustainable though to continue with a calendar that has WRC events in Germany and France - rallies that are virtually identical in terms of the challenge to drivers and cars and less than 100 miles apart geographically.


How many rallies through picturesque vineyards, do we really need in a calendar that has a finite number of events?

The bottom line is, WRC needs a refresh and we in Europe need to encourage this change and not be resistant to it, if rallying is to have a sustainable global future.

Here’s the video of the Q&A in which Malcolm made his remarks. It starts at the point where he is talking about this important issue: M-Sport WRC 2013 reveal - AUTOSPORT International - YouTube

I think both Russia and India have a good case to host an event.

The one certainty is, the manufacturers will be eyeing emerging markets closely. The centre of gravity may be about to shift when it comes to WRC!

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Originally Posted by Rallying UK

I think both Russia and India have a good case to host an event.

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Considering what Mitch555 wrote just before you:

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Originally Posted by Mitch555

India
Hasn't been in the APRC for 7/8 years now. No local FIA homologated cars either.

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I wouldn't put too much hope for India. Rallying needs locals input as well, not the ten or so teams doing the whole championship.

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Originally Posted by Rallying UK

I think both Russia and India have a good case to host an event.

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On what basis? Population? You've got to be kidding!

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Originally Posted by Rallying UK

It is unsustainable though to continue with a calendar that has WRC events in Germany and France - rallies that are virtually identical in terms of the challenge to drivers and cars and less than 100 miles apart geographically.


How many rallies through picturesque vineyards, do we really need in a calendar that has a finite number of events?

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Unsustainable to have the two of the most successful and popular events on the calendar?

This geographical proximity thing is a load of crap to focus on.

They need to get rid of crap events like Wales Rally GB first. The only way to get the MSA to sort their house out is to force their hand otherwise they'll just keep pulling profit from the contribution made by the Welsh Assembly Government and not making a better event.

United Arab Emirates and Qatar

Could well make their way onto the WRC calendar in the future.

Plenty of money to buy part of their way in too. However, the cars in the WRC are not so popular in the Middle East. ie DS3 and Fiesta. Ironically these two cars are the ones sponsored by the middle east countries. But we all know it is all about the Middle East drivers wanting to enjoy driving in a works team, they are not interested with these brand of cars in the middle east.

Potential market. It's huge.

Two rallies that straddle the French / German border, through virtually the same vineyards, is becoming a bit of a yawn.

Wales Rally GB is different event entirely - and its great to see a Government who is prepared to support our sport.

Fact is, manufacturers are looking to sell cars in new markets - new mass markets. Those markets = more profits.

That's what will will determine WRC in the future. It's a fact of life.

The plus side to Germany has to be organisation and even the weather though when it rains it really does rain. I was advised to go there as my first event as it was more fan friendly than Wales Rally GB. I don't regret it. So easy, so well organised. Really good memories. That sort of accessibility for people should not be overlooked. If 'chopping' a rally from the Calender, I don't see that dumping one of the rallies held in the countries of the current two major manufacturers could be a win for the WRC! (It might actually spell the total end). I doubt if the many thousands of German fans that attend each year think it is much like France either.

Just adding more rounds if bringing in the new rallies would be fine for me. I would miss all the regulars from the calender and as they are well established and well supported (if not by TV coverage) I see no reason to chop any of them.

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Originally Posted by navtheace

United Arab Emirates and Qatar

Could well make their way onto the WRC calendar in the future.

Plenty of money to buy part of their way in too. However, the cars in the WRC are not so popular in the Middle East. ie DS3 and Fiesta. Ironically these two cars are the ones sponsored by the middle east countries. But we all know it is all about the Middle East drivers wanting to enjoy driving in a works team, they are not interested with these brand of cars in the middle east.

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What cars do they like in the middle east? Do they really like rallying? I know Nasser and his friends have great fun with Fiestas, JCWs and DS3s but from my vantage point it only looks like a sport made up of and supported by hardcore enthusiasts. To be fair I am surprised Abhu Dhabi and Qatar have invested so much into the WRC as it is. I would like to see something better than Jordan offered as a middle east round however.

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Originally Posted by Rallying UK

Fact is, manufacturers are looking to sell cars in new markets - new mass markets. Those markets = more profits.

That's what will will determine WRC in the future. It's a fact of life.

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It's an argument that's been touted here many times before and shot down each and every time. But I see you're new so we'll go over it again.

There's a reason that the WRC has not been in countries like India & China etc ... The sport is not popular there, there is no expertise in running such an event, nobody would come.
The fact is, there's more marketing profile to be had by excelling in a well established, respected, high profile event with a historic following than in running the event in a country where nobody cares.

What will determine WRC in the future (if they're clever) is the re-establishment of the historically iconic events to their rightful status with some powerful promotion and profiling.
Everyone wants to know who won the Tour de France. Nobody wants to know who won the Tour of Bangalore.

How long before Rallye de France returns to Corsica? Alsace is a good event, but is too close to Deutschland, in stage type and geography. And with Loeb no longer in the WRC, there’s no reason to stay.

We all know about the BRICs, however, is there really a market for Rallying there? I’ve said before – no point going if nobody is interested.
How about trying to ensure the ‘Classics’ remain – and let them stay true to what made them classic events. So Monte, Acropolis, Corsica, Sanremo, Finland are allowed more freedom in their format.

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Originally Posted by Rallying UK

Two rallies that straddle the French / German border, through virtually the same vineyards, is becoming a bit of a yawn.

Wales Rally GB is different event entirely - and its great to see a Government who is prepared to support our sport.

Fact is, manufacturers are looking to sell cars in new markets - new mass markets. Those markets = more profits.

That's what will will determine WRC in the future. It's a fact of life.

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Plus 1 to Sprocket's opinion.

Both France and Germany WRC rounds attract large numbers of spectators and although I've not been to France, I had the same experience in Germany as Sprocket did - going back this year. It's arguable that as both are 'successful' events why can't they be on the same calender, despite grumbling Brits looking through the wrong end of the analytical telescope. Surely, the main argument is should France be allowed 2 WRC rounds since all the competition of the Monte is actually in France. As for returning to Corsica, can't see it happening given the greater accessibility of Alsace.
I agree that before any country hosts a WRC event they should have developed a rallying tradition (fan base) and infrastructure (Officials and competent marshals)
Agree with Andy RAC that the 'classics' be a) on the WRC calendar and b) able to determine their own formats. Sadly, as likely to happen as a Rally GB that encompasses England and Scotland. Note that he doesn't include WRGB as a 'classic'.

A switch from Alsace back to Corsica would get a big thumbs up from me and would be a good compromise rather than dropping the French round entirely. I do though think there is a huge cultural difference between ADAC Rallye Deutschland and Rallye de France-Alsace, even if geographically they are close and the stages similar. Both are very successful events with huge local fan support in their own right.

I feel the WRC still has an awful long way to go at reaching new audiences within the current scope, without trying to break into brand new areas. It has to be down to the media coverage or complete lack of it.

It's a hard core fan sport because it is the hard core fans who put up with the rubbish coverage etc. Make the whole atmosphere more accessible to a much wider audience and the excitement of the sport itself will do the rest. Until they sort that out with the current events, I really can't see any success from new markets.

Indonesia or some tropical rally would be a very unique addition to the calendar once more. I would definitely like the rotation policy to be dropped though. It is bizarre and diminishes the value of the championship, in my opinion.

Some countries in the WRC should return to the classic venues - Rally Australia should be held in Western Australia, and France in Corsica. It is important that the WRC has rallies with very distinctive character, rather than with roads that could be anywhere.

Which reminds me, why didn't the Rally de Portugal return to Estoril/the Sintra stages?

There's a quick fix to Alsace and Deutschland taking two spaces in the calendar: run them as one event - a couple of days in France, a couple of days East of the border. If it's doable for Sweden/Norway, why not for France/Germany?

Back to the topic: the future WRC calendar might look similar to WTCC: first half of the season (Winter/Spring) in Europe, and then the cars would be put on a ship and travel around the world for the rest of the year in a cost-effective way. Six rallies in Europe, and six outside of it would be a perfect scenario.

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Originally Posted by kober

There's a quick fix to Alsace and Deutschland taking two spaces in the calendar: run them as one event - a couple of days in France, a couple of days East of the border. If it's doable for Sweden/Norway, why not for France/Germany?

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You would need to do Germany to understand why that would not be good I think. It is a very coherent and well organized event as it is. Changing the format could only be bad for it. The way it is currently, it is easy to cover many of the stages, do the service park and round it all off with the Circus Maximus, travelling a further 100 miles into France would really spoil it in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by kober

There's a quick fix to Alsace and Deutschland taking two spaces in the calendar: run them as one event - a couple of days in France, a couple of days East of the border. If it's doable for Sweden/Norway, why not for France/Germany?

Back to the topic: the future WRC calendar might look similar to WTCC: first half of the season (Winter/Spring) in Europe, and then the cars would be put on a ship and travel around the world for the rest of the year in a cost-effective way. Six rallies in Europe, and six outside of it would be a perfect scenario.

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WTCC don't always go on a ship. They can be airfreighted just like WRC cars.

They're expensive assets to have sitting on ships for weeks at a time and unable to be worked on.

Besides, the main cost is flying staff around the work, not necessarily the logistics of sending the cars.

And, just like F1, WTCC has the luxury of turning up to fully functional buildings. WRC doesn't. They have to take everything with them. Which means certain timeframes to allow Service Park equipment to travel from one Long Haul event to the next.

Just to add to my opinion of United Arab Emirates and Qatar

It would be excellent to see both USA and Canada on the WRC calendar, where they could have the two located close ish to each other in terms of distance. Also have one like 2 or 3 weeks after the other one. So logistically they help keep costs down.

They have a lot to offer to the world of rallying in terms of spectators, business/sponsorship oppurtunities, competitors and are good markets for road car sales also.

I hear good things about rallying in both Canada and the USA. They have a lot of positives to offer the WRC.

Good point about Corsica.

I dont think for one moment though that the "market" for rallying is a determinate factor in choosing where an WRC event is held. Ultimately, its manufacturers that keep WRC on the road and manufacturers will want to go where the markets are for their cars.

India and Russia cannot be discounted. There are simply too many 'European' rounds.

Is there much point going where a perceived market exists for the cars if no fans turn up to the events?

The events have to make money to be viable for the local organizers, bills need paying etc.

I can't see manufacturers selling many news cars on half-an-hours TV footage shown at non-peak times, sometimes, maybe or not at all as is the case in the UK either.

It seems to me the selling of cars was left behind when the Japanese manufactures left the championship. It's now about the excitement and linking that to the sponsors branding more than the specific model of car involved? Particularly as show room cars have no relation to the competition cars at all. At least that is how I see it, though just an opinion, I could be miles off the mark.

But take for example Red Bull, do the Air Races sell Edge 540 planes to pilots, or is it really just a branding exercise for Red Bull?

Very valid point there Sprocket :)

People are not buying road cars based on rallying anymore, as the World Rally Car you see rallying has nothing to do with the road car.

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Originally Posted by navtheace

Very valid point there Sprocket :)

People are not buying road cars based on rallying anymore, as the World Rally Car you see rallying has nothing to do with the road car.

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Yeah, group B's were very similar to the road cars too...

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Originally Posted by tommeke_B

Yeah, group B's were very similar to the road cars too...

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:D May be except AUDI.... and may be except S1 E2 :D

I don't think rally was about selling specific car models in Group B days, or even before. This is why I'm not sure why there is a big link in this thread to the WRC going to perceived markets for the manufactures products. It is not the model it is the associations, winning rally Russia would not in my mind lead to VW selling boat loads of Polo in Russia.

Lancia Stratos and most group B cars were almost impossible to buy

Quattro, Escort, Mini rally success probably did sell cars

Lancia Integrale, Evo and Impreza - probably rally helped with sales to a select market as the showroom models were at least relatives of competition cars.

As pointed out many rally cars have almost no relation to production models. But I do think at one time association with rally of names like Ford/Lancia/Audi sold cars. These days I feel the emphasis has shifted a lot away from this towards sponsors branding. I guess it would take Citroen to come on here and say, no we sell thousands of DS3 in 2012 because of Loeb's rally success, to show otherwise. Though I think car markets are much more subtle these days than for people to be influenced much by rally success when making a purchase. If Citroen are selling a lot of DS3 it is because the road version ticks the right boxes in the mind of potential customers, not the rally success.

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Originally Posted by Sprocket

These days I feel the emphasis has shifted a lot away from this towards sponsors branding. I guess it would take Citroen to come on here and say, no we sell thousands of DS3 in 2012 because of Loeb's rally success, to show otherwise. Though I think car markets are much more subtle these days than for people to be influenced much by rally success when making a purchase. If Citroen are selling a lot of DS3 it is because the road version ticks the right boxes in the mind of potential customers, not the rally success.

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It doesn't hurt to have a good car and rally success. The Impreza did when I bought my first one, and after owning it for five years when I needed a new car there wasn't much debate for a replacement.

When I was young in the 80s my parents had two Hondas and we'd watch F1 wanting Hondas to win, no matter if they were sponsored by Marlboro, Camel, Canon, or what. Granted it helped that they were winning thanks to Mansel, Prost and Senna, but we'd also want Nakajima to do just as well if possible. I don't root for Abu Dhabi's Department of Tourism or Red Bull (though I suppose I am a fan of Castrol), and I'm still as focused on the maker as the driver, though there are plenty of colorful fellows to watch. I still liked McRae after he moved to Ford but I sure didn't want him to beat Richard Burns.

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Originally Posted by Gregor-y

It doesn't hurt to have a good car and rally success. The Impreza did when I bought my first one, and after owning it for five years when I needed a new car there wasn't much debate for a replacement.

When I was young in the 80s my parents had two Hondas and we'd watch F1 wanting Hondas to win, no matter if they were sponsored by Marlboro, Camel, Canon, or what. Granted it helped that they were winning thanks to Mansel, Prost and Senna, but we'd also want Nakajima to do just as well if possible. I don't root for Abu Dhabi's Department of Tourism or Red Bull (though I suppose I am a fan of Castrol), and I'm still as focused on the maker as the driver, though there are plenty of colorful fellows to watch. I still liked McRae after he moved to Ford but I sure didn't want him to beat Richard Burns.

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In a way that is what I'm getting at. You have your associations that go way beyond any sponsor branding. I don't follow rally to see the Red Bull logo either! But how does that work in a country with no established rally tradition or associations with the manufacturers involved. To me it doesn't. How is it working with zero media coverage in the UK also. I'm a fan and I'm having to resort to Youtube to follow the WRC this year.

Even in motorsport circles I'm meeting few people who now follow the WRC, so I'm struggling to see how they can be getting to Joe Public in the established regions now and then wondering what is the logic behind taking the WRC into new countries. It seems they can't be influencing the mass market for the cars through the WRC hardly at all in the established regions the way things are. I'm no genius but if this doesn't bother the marketing people I can only assume their agenda lies elsewhere.

As I said above I could be well off the mark, but it just seems it is going this way to me.

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Originally Posted by Rallying UK

I dont think for one moment though that the "market" for rallying is a determinate factor in choosing where an WRC event is held.

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Of course it is. And if it's not, it should be!

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Originally Posted by &quot

Ultimately, its manufacturers that keep WRC on the road

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Only because that's the current thinking. It could just as easily be a very successful privateer competition with manufacturers only involvement being the homologation of suitable vehicles. In fact, it would likely be a better contest if it was.

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Originally Posted by &quot

India and Russia cannot be discounted. There are simply too many 'European' rounds.

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India certainly could. And the WRC has gotten along just fine without going near Russia. The WRC could survive very well without leaving European shores.


What you are confusing yourself with is the power of 'presence'. There isn't any ... unless the activity has significant following.
If a sport is not strong in any given country, the local media will not go near it. The reality of today is that there is so much money invested
in the popular sports in a region that the media focus their attention where the advertising dollar is.

To use India as an example, they are cricket and hockey mad. The WRC could come and go without causing a ripple. The local media would pay it no
attention whatsoever.
There is so much more benefit for marketeers by focussing their attention and resources in quality events which have a historic worldwide following.

Sprocket is on the money!

There is a way to turn this on its head.

I'm just going to concentrate on the Manufacturers Championship as the topic of where rally should be held has been linked with selling cars. I appreciate it has been punctuated in the past if not in recent history by the drivers titles using different machinery.

So what has the WRC been in the eyes of manufacturers?

Take from 1973 to 1991 we have European manufacturers demonstrating their prowess, engineering ability and for a short stage with group B the fact they can be just as bonkers as us fans! Seriously though a very European flavour with Lancia topping the list most regularly, then Fiat, Audi, Peugeot, Ford, Alpine-Renault in the mix.

Things changed in 1993 with Toyota taking the title followed by a further 6 years of Japanese domination. So the period 1993 to 1999 had two effects. The first is it did a lot to sell Japanese performance cars in Europe and parts of the rest of the world. The second, it raised the profile of Rally and particularly the WRC as a sport in Japan. This is how to generate presence in a country.

1999 saw a return to European domination, Citroen then Peugeot dominating the Manufactures titles, with a couple of notable titles for the Ford Focus WRC.


So my point? What is being discussed is how to take the WRC to the BRICs (Brazil, Russia, India, China and lets throw in South Africa too).

Perhaps the question should be how to attract the BRICs manufacturers to the WRC. Try convincing them it is an ideal platform to raise their profile within Europe. That way if it happened and they won titles, the presence in those countries would be formed. The people of those countries would start to follow the WRC, only then does it make sense to take the events to them.

Sadly though I don't think this would be on the agenda, going back to my earlier points regarding the Championship being more a branding exercise these days.

I don't think VW for example will be more interested of promotion in Brasil & Russia regarding WRC. In Brasil they have long going presence with a factory there producing Beetles for many years. In Russia I think there is separate motorsport brand which develop cars of other classes than WRC and probably the promotion there will be with these classes. I have no idea for India & China though. Probably for China would be more important races like Silk Road.

In China there's officiel local Shangai VW-Skoda team running, with Niall McShea, and a VW one. you have too Citroen China and Subaru China involved. Only chinese brand on top is Soueast, which is the same as Proton in the 90's.
And moreover there's european professional drivers : McShea, Sandell, Higgins. And I don't remenber who was there some years ago.

I'm quite sure China is ready for a WRC round. Local dealers are involved, there's more than hundred starters, and for sure local brand want to promote them. Be in WRC could be a good way for them.
But I think India is not really interested in this ... maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't have a lot of success in APRC, and there's no international rally. For sure they have to try to come back in APRC, and after if it works, so yes !

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Originally Posted by userwave

the best North American rallies are in Canada namely Rally of the Tall Pines in Ontario and Rally Baie Des Chaleurs in Quebec, perhaps this may seem a bit biased coming from a Canadian, but both of these events are highly regarded and draw teams from all across Canada and America.

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Yeah, too bad we hardly get any coverage of them. 22 minutes on TSN, and 60% of that seems to be interviews. I really wish they'd devote an hour to each rally. That would help a bit, at least. 20 seconds of in-car footage followed by 2 minutes of interviews at the service park over and over again isn't a good way to create interest in a sport.

If i was to have a say about the calendar, I would make it 16 rounds like it used to be. Bringing back Cyprus,Norway,Japan,Ireland and Australia back in Perth. I would replace Rally Alsace in Corsica and make Rally Catalunya back as a full Tarmac Rally. So lets say the calendar for 2014 would be: Monte-Carlo
Sweden
Norway
Mexico
Argentina
Greece
Italy
Cyprus
Finland
Germany
New-Zealand
Spain
Corsica
Japan
Australia
Wales GB
and in 2015 put back Ireland instead of Norway.

I think the best way to forward is to have rotating events, as it the easiest way to gain exposure to as many countries as possible. However I think that there should be core events that maintain a yearly place on the calendar. Like Monte, Sweden, Finland, GB, Spain, New Zealand, Corsica etc, i.e the rallies that have a historic presence in the WRC and keep the prestige of the sport alive. I also think that WRC should follow F1 and group events together based on their location. So for instance Mexico and Argentina (and maybe brazil) could be grouped together.

Maybe the calendar could stretch to 18 events but no more.

My calendar would be Monte, Sweden, Portugal, Safari, Corsica, Acropolis, Argentina, NZ, 1000 Lakes, Australia, San Remo, Catalunya, RAC, Morocco.

You can call me a traditionalist if you like!

I don't see the argument for Germany. Germany has loads of car manufacturers, I don't need to list them, and Germans, being sensible patriotic people will buy German cars. So, as a marketing episode for Citroen, Pug, Skoda et al, its a waste of time, they will still go and buy an Audi, Merc or BeeEm.

China and Brazil, yeah, loads of people, but, 0 interest in rallys. Therefore, waste of time. If Cutroen, Pug, VW group etc want to sell cars there a cool well made advert would be much more effective.

If I were to 'drop' a rally off my list it would potentially be Australia in favour of Ireland, the Czechs, Belgium or Estonia, i.e, a place where there are a whole lot of rally fans. Surely if you have a sport you want it to be held where people want to watch it, make it easy for yourself!

My calendar would be as it follows, with 14-dates (like said in the gentleman agreement between Manufacturers and FIA, under NOS-management), and I explain you my thoughs:

1 - Monte Carlo (no reasons to keep them off the calendar)
2 - Sweden (running a leg through Norway, whom big sponsors come from)
3 - Mexico (quite close to the USA, relevant market for VW and Ford)
4 - Portugal (giant budget and great value for WRC stakeholders, an event where you can invite potential sponsors to sign-in)
5 - Brazil (relevant market for VW and good moment to go, as they're investing a lot of money for WC and Olympics)
6 - Argentina (many local sponsors, etc)
7 - Greece (although with Country's problems, they run a nice event with lots of people on the stages. And it's a historical landmark of the sport)
8 - Italy (Emerald Coast is now owned by Ford's premier partner "Qatar" and it's planned a 1bln-investment from them in the region... furthermore in last 2 years the spectators were more and more. Even Colin Clark and Julian Porter noticed that during MotorsTV commentary!)
9 - Finland (no reasons to keep them off the calendar, great event)
10 - Germany (running a leg through Alsace)
11 - Australia (it's the main Country where some sponsors still have an interest)
12 - China (finally ready for a WRC-event)
13 - Spain (no reasons to keep them off the calendar)
14 - Great Britain (moving close to Man-Liv-Midlands will give a big boost, furthermore it's fully backed by Welsh government)

India is definitely not ready to host WRC, neither a motorsport-event. They don't consider motorsport as a "sport", so any event must be privately-funded. At the moment there's no interest from Tata too.

Russia has a very "closed" market, and they're thinking mainly to Lada's involvement in WTCC. If I were the Promoter, I'd wait some years before moving there...

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Originally Posted by Motorsportfun

My calendar would be as it follows, with 14-dates (like said in the gentleman agreement between Manufacturers and FIA, under NOS-management), and I explain you my thoughs:

1 - Monte Carlo (no reasons to keep them off the calendar)
2 - Sweden (running a leg through Norway, whom big sponsors come from)
3 - Mexico (quite close to the USA, relevant market for VW and Ford)
4 - Portugal (giant budget and great value for WRC stakeholders, an event where you can invite potential sponsors to sign-in)
5 - Brazil (relevant market for VW and good moment to go, as they're investing a lot of money for WC and Olympics)
6 - Argentina (many local sponsors, etc)
7 - Greece (although with Country's problems, they run a nice event with lots of people on the stages. And it's a historical landmark of the sport)
8 - Italy (Emerald Coast is now owned by Ford's premier partner "Qatar" and it's planned a 1bln-investment from them in the region... furthermore in last 2 years the spectators were more and more. Even Colin Clark and Julian Porter noticed that during MotorsTV commentary!)
9 - Finland (no reasons to keep them off the calendar, great event)
10 - Germany (running a leg through Alsace)
11 - Australia (it's the main Country where some sponsors still have an interest)
12 - China (finally ready for a WRC-event)
13 - Spain (no reasons to keep them off the calendar)
14 - Great Britain (moving close to Man-Liv-Midlands will give a big boost, furthermore it's fully backed by Welsh government)

India is definitely not ready to host WRC, neither a motorsport-event. They don't consider motorsport as a "sport", so any event must be privately-funded. At the moment there's no interest from Tata too.

Russia has a very "closed" market, and they're thinking mainly to Lada's involvement in WTCC. If I were the Promoter, I'd wait some years before moving there...

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You think there should be an event in Brazil purely because it is a VW market? What about when the big wigs in the VW Group boardroom decide that throwing cash at a sportscar and GT program for both Audi and Porsche, Audi's DTM team and Skoda's rally team is quite enough, especially when interest in the WRC is at an all time low?
And you think having an event on Sardegna purely as a marketing tool for a Qatari owned holiday resort is preferable to having an event in one of rally's classic locations close to a whole shed load of fans? How utterly depressing, which department of the FIA do you work in?

Somewhere where I would consider having an event, purely for the hell of it, with no economic consideration given to it at all, is in Central Asia. There are loads of blogs on the web and TV shows about people riding across the region on bikes, or in Trabants, and the scenery is phenomenal. Not only that but there appears to be a limitless supply of rough and ready dirt roads. I am talking about the Kazakhstan/Southern Russia/North West China/Mongolia area. Sure, nobody would be watching because barely anyone lives there, and those that do drive horses, but I reckon it would be a good laugh. If we want to be sensible about it, China, Kazakhstan and Russia have money coming out of their ears and one of them could easily afford the logistics of actually getting there in the first place. Thinking of it, Kazakhstan could be up for it to put them on the map and be known of for something other than Borat! The event could be a long distance raid style Safari equivalent, without the crowds. I suppose it would have to be in summer, breaking down when its -40 could get dangerous!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trickydicky

You think there should be an event in Brazil purely because it is a VW market? What about when the big wigs in the VW Group boardroom decide that throwing cash at a sportscar and GT program for both Audi and Porsche, Audi's DTM team and Skoda's rally team is quite enough, especially when interest in the WRC is at an all time low?
And you think having an event on Sardegna purely as a marketing tool for a Qatari owned holiday resort is preferable to having an event in one of rally's classic locations close to a whole shed load of fans? How utterly depressing, which department of the FIA do you work in?

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Are you on drugs? What Rally's Classic Location are you talking about? Alsace? Proudly traditional since... 2010! Come on, don't be stupid!

I really think you don't have ANY IDEA of what's Brazil now. Anyway, Brazil is one of the most fast-growing markets in the WORLD. It's not coincidence is F1 is trying to keep the race in, although in a old-crappy circuit. Furthermore, X Games has invested quite a lot of money there for not a properly remarkable event, but many sponsors found a wide place to sell their products, so it's "ok". At the moment, Brazil Government put in place the WORLD'S BIGGEST investments for infrastructures: motorways, airports, stadiums, entire downtowns for World Cup and Olympics.

You know, it's not just Volkswagen affair (that has a plant there and want to built from scratch a new one), as LOTS of conglomerates decided to open there their plants:
> Fiat produces his cars in Belo Horizonte
> Hyundai in Sao Paulo
> Renault in Curitiba
> Nissan in Rio de Janeiro
> Also PSA decided to produce there its new 208!

So, don't be stupid and just think at what Brazil has to offer to all WRC stakeholders. Manufacturers, Media, sponsors, local promoters, drivers, etc.

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Originally Posted by Rallying UK

Malcolm Wilson of M-Sport made a very interesting point during a Q&A at the Autosport Show recently, about the future shape of the World Rally Championship.

Wilson was asked about the “geographical spread” of WRC events and in his answer, he correctly pointed to emerging countries and the imperative to get WRC into countries such as China, Brazil, Russia in the future.

This makes eminent sense - not just for giving rallying truly global reach to potentially massive audiences but it also makes sense from the manufacturer’s perspective i.e. high-volume car sales in huge new markets.

If WRC is to survive, the fact is it has to ‘escape’ from being a predominantly European-based championship, into a truly global one.

The one certainty is, the manufacturers will be eyeing emerging markets closely. The centre of gravity may be about to shift when it comes to WRC!

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I'm not sure if this could be any more wrong. If the WRC left Europe, having say 3 or 4 events there, it would fold in 3 years tops. You have to remember where your competitors are coming from. Seen as most of them are European and money is tight it wouldn't take long for them all to pull out of a 'global' series on financial grounds. Then you'd have just your manufacturers taking part, no more than 4 because no body will pay a fortune to finish in the teens all the time, Toyota and BMW wouldn't fork out to do that in F1, never mind the WRC. Then the '4th' or least successful team would pull out, then another on financial grounds, and another having trouble attracting sponsors to race no one in front of no one, and you'd be left with nothing. All this has happened before in sportscars and touring cars.

If you think about it, you can trace the WRC's decline since when Malcolm Wilson got involved, so I would think his opinions are worthless. He's had his chance, and he made a hash of it.

Having said that maybe a total collapse wouldn't be all bad. People would still race each other across country, for the hell of it, and people would be able to buy cars , and we'd be back to the beginning again!