we've got our own ice track and icemaker (donkey can't find the start button :dozey: ) on location now :bandit:Quote:
Originally Posted by schmenke
http://i46.tinypic.com/2d6jvoy.jpg
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we've got our own ice track and icemaker (donkey can't find the start button :dozey: ) on location now :bandit:Quote:
Originally Posted by schmenke
http://i46.tinypic.com/2d6jvoy.jpg
That thing looks awesome, I'd drive it to work if I had it.
I'm in Quebec this week and can't get over the fact everyone with a car is required to have snow tires on. So many new cars on steel wheels. Even when I was living in Colorado most people were too cheap to have a set. That said it hasn't snowed, yet, even up here.
steel wheels? Damn those Quebecois are cheap :p :andrea:
There's typically a lot of salt laid down on our roads during winter which corrodes alloy wheels.
salt doesn't corrode alloy wheels as much in Germany... maybe they wash their cars more often ;) :p :andrea:
-15 deg C temps aren't ideal for car washing ;) . We usually endure the grime until springtime when we can hook up a power washer :p : .
I guess hooking up a power washer is cheaper than paying for a car wash :p
I spoke too soon. I drove through an ice storm to find Quebec City under a lot of snow with driving sleet. I need some of those covered wiper blades for ice.
http://imageshack.us/a/img543/3288/icev.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by donKey jote
Especially when I borrow the neighbour's power washer :p :
Who's that then, his missus? :p
i've read some of this tread, i can't resist.
1.rule: only buy snowtyres from a country that actually has snow.
2: if mostly ice and hard snow, wider tyres, most loose snow, narrower tyres.
3. studs is way better than studless, whatever anyone says.
4: never trust the salesman! he's there to **** you.
5: no such thing as "all year tyres"! they are bad on summer, even more bad at winter.
6: 4x4 don't "fix" the gravity. you need to brake and make turns with a 4x4 too.
7: all those 3-letters electronic **** is just for bad drivers and women :)
8: nokian hakkapeliita 5 is the worlds best wintertyre. end of diskusion!
i've drive 40.000km a year in lillehammer, norway. half the year its slippery, so i have tested lots of tyres and cars thru the years. exept of 4x4 (normal one, not those fancy ones not build for snow) rwd with studs is much better than fwd with studless. jeep wrangler and other of that kind is useless on snow and ice.
1. agree, unless you mean only Viking, Gislaved, Nokian etc :p
2. agree
3. on your permanently white roads yes.
4. agree
5. agree
6. agree
7. agree. However, 98% of drivers outside Scandinavia are bad :p
8. agree it's one of the better studded tyres, otherwise not end of discussion :)
actually, this years winner on the wintertyre test on dry tarmac was a tyre with studs :) think it was continental.
studless is quite good on hard snow, but overall studs is better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skarderud
I beg to differ. In my driving history I’ve owned both the Jeep Wrangler (“YJ” model) and the Jeep Cherokee, both with similar drive trains. Both were exceptional in winter driving conditions. Never once did I ever get either vehicle stuck in the snow or on ice. Mind you, you are correct that braking and steering must be adjusted accordingly :) .
Then you never has driven a Volvo xc70 or a Subaru on snow. Yes, you won't get stuck that easy, but it's like trying to throw a sledgehammer with the head backwards. Its spins so easy and is close to a tractor (agriculture one) in feeling :) put some allterrain's on those on snow, and you have a real widowmaker. A friend of mine actually as that combo, he says it best: you don't drive a car, you drive a jeep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by donKey jote
Quote:
Originally Posted by skarderud
DKJ, as Skarderud says its actually the opposite of what you might think.
Studdless is usually for inland roads where the air is drier which means compact snow but hardly any ice or bare roads.
Like the inner parts of Norrland in Sweden.
Studded tires works better then studdless on icy and bare roads where there is a big risk for "Black ice" which happens
when there is moist on bare roads and the temperature drops. The moist will then freeze and create Black ice.
The big danger with it is that you usually don't notice it until its too late. Especially with tires without studs.
Studdless tires usually have little or no grip at all on it.
Yes, black ice is the biggest danger of course, and studs are obviously unbeatable on ice.
What I really meant was on your "nordic winter" roads. Here we barely have snow on the main roads as they are easily cleared, so wet and dry grip in cold conditions are more important. Not that we're allowed studs anyway due to the road wear without the snow or ice cover.
I'd be very interested in seeing those test results though... what was the magazine?
What did the dry tarmac test consist of? I can't imagine the studs lasted very long !
Well there was some snow on the roads yesterday and the conclusion is that snow tires are useless around here because most cars are driven at max 40 km/h when it snows. :s
another conclusion is that you're surrounded by bad drivers or women ;) :laugh:
I am tempted to agree with that.
Test av vinterdekk 2012 - NAF
here is one tyretest, but in norwegian. googlish it :)
you need snowtyres anyway, because even in 40km/h you have 20m longer brakingzone with summertyres. imagine in 8:)
and its nice to have some grip when you will pass those, probably with summertyres....
ah yes, Jukka Antila from Test World. Thanks ! :up:
But the thing is DKJ, you are generalizing too much in this case.Quote:
Originally Posted by donKey jote
The Distance from the southern tip of Sweden at Smygehuk to the North Cape in Norway is the same
as the distance from Hamburg in northern Germany to Messina at the Messina strait in southern Italy.
This means that the variations in climate and weather is actually quite big which also means that the winter roads
you are talking about aren't that common in the southern half the country.
Since even if there is lots of snow (which is far from certain) the larger roads are usually cleared and
those roads that are not cleared eventually becomes very icy.
Of course it's a generalisation, you have more snow and ice and lower temperatures in general. "Standard" winter tyres are different to "Nordic" winter tyres for these general reasons. :)
Why do my snow tyres keep melting in the sun? ;)
Well I got my winter tyres fitted on Wednesday (Pirelli W160) and am far from convinced :s Maybe it's just going back to narrower 13" steel wheels but the understeer around dry roundabouts is horrific :s
Of course, it's now meant to get slightly warmer over the next few days, that's my fault :p :
Have had few beers with Jukka during the dark period of my life :DQuote:
Originally Posted by donKey jote
I guess my dark period isn't over yet :laugh:
Everyone has winter tires here from November to mid April, it is the law.Quote:
Originally Posted by skarderud
Well, the new Donkinentals are working out just fine :) , although we've had next to no snow since I mounted them :rolleyes: .
I've got some kind of Conti winter tires too, and they are doing fine as long as you take care.
As a side info winter tires are not made to be better on snow, the idea is to have a tire that performs better in terms of grip in the cold (under 7 degrees Celsius) than the usual summer rubber does.
Fixed ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Winter tyres have softer compounds (to mantain friction at lower temperatures, where harder summer compounds "freeze"), and a more structured tread pattern, with plenty of sipes for better grip on low friction surfaces such as ice, snow, and "slippy" wet. :)
lots of differences on a nordic tyre and a mid-europe tyre.
the nordic tyre is softer compound, and has more sipes. remember that these tyres have to work in both +3 and wet ice to -3:) lots of grip in -30 thought!
i actually put a (probably) mid european continental tyre (ts810?) on one of my cars to test (volvo 850), and its better than summertyres, but nowhere near the nokian (hakka r) i normaly have there. but my other car, a volvo 945 turbo with hakka 7 is a much better car on snow and ice. easier to predict and know where you have it. this morning is was 18cm new snow, no problem to go to work!
Yes. Nordic tyres are designed for more extreme winter (lower temperatures, more snow and ice) than standard mid-European winter tyres. They are not as good as the standard winter tyres in wet or dry though.Quote:
Originally Posted by skarderud
I am not sure that the more structured thread is of any use on ice, not even on snow, maybe on slippy wet where it improves the evacuation of the fluid between the tire and road surface, but then again this is also the case on summer tires. In the end the friction coefficient is related to the material properties and not to the thread of the tire.Quote:
Originally Posted by donKey jote
Anyway you most probably knew this as you're the Conti man! ;)
Believe me, friction is also about tread pattern and the sipes help on ice and snow :)
Independent of the material properties:
With sipes -> more wheel slip = more traction on snow and ice
Without -> traction increases to a maximum at low slip and falls extremely rapidly
As a side: Nordic tyres have pretty much the maximum sipe density for this effect on ice. Increase it further and you lose again.
The friction coefficient is related to the tire and the surface and there are several grip mechanisms. Adhesion and hysteresis are strongly related to the material properties. Water evacuation or mechanical interlocking with the surface asperities or the deformable surface have less to do with the material and more with the pattern. Then you have pattern-compound-surface interaction, where the tread deformation and hence the surface contact depend on the compound hardness. I won't tyre you with the details ;) :p
Donks that looks pretty much like Ronspeak to me! :p ;)
I'm joking ofcourse.
It's 48 (8) and raining in Chicago. 286 days since the last measurable snowfall. Quebec had plenty of snow, but a policeman told me it's still warm since the shipping channel hasn't started to ice up. My poor Dunlops are going to have nothing to do but wear down.
I had a Continental go flat on my way to work yesterday:
http://imageshack.us/a/img822/7246/tireyz.jpg
Sorry, I don't have a donkey mask in my office, but I was able to borrow a horse...