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You do realise that the theory of evolution stems from survival of the fittest, so human ancestors less adapted to the environment die off, right? And I assume you know why something which has been dead for thousands of years may be difficult/impossible to find.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
I'm working for our government. Now I feel like I'm serving "evil"....
ahh so that does make us all invading aliens?Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
But we have plenty of apes and we have humans so where's the bit inbetween? The missing links as assume it was a gradual thing. Was a cave dweller really hairy like in the films?Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
That's more a Catholic thing as they aren't allowed to get their end away, be a better idea to let them get wed etc. Plus a job like that will attract those who want to abuse it, I'd imagine there are more paedos within care system than say banking.
I think he is running our HR dept....!!! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
But where are their less evolved skeletal remains? When they find a skeleton from yonks back, its same as yours and mine, no tweaks here and there. We can find dinosaur fossils so why not missing link skeletons? Why because they don't exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by theugsquirrel
If we were really adapting why are the same diseases killing us now as hundreds of years ago?
The diseases are mutating/evolving to become risilient to the medications we have developed......Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
Go look in the Natural History Museum for the evidence of mans evolution......
HR, I remember when it was called personnel, progress eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
Evolution perhaps? :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
But man made medicines aren't really part of evolution.Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
Why what is there, real skeletons showing our various versions or just someone's guesses because they don't like the fairy tale version of some greater being?
Go take a look so you can come to your own conclusions is all I can suggest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
The evidence is quite compelling.
Only if you want it to be, if there really was concrete evidence that God didn't exist I think the bible bashers would have torched the place by now.Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
Touche - there is little evidence that God did/does exist - the Shroud of Turin gets rolled out once in a while - we get a few days off in December and March....Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
Or is it Jehova, or Budha, or Allah? So many beliefs that ultimately have been the cause of so many wars and loss of life....
Not much of a case there.......
Religion doesn't cause wars, people cause wars.
Religion is smarter than science though as it relies on faith so doesn't have to prove itself, in fact if it did then it would vanish in moment of logic.
Without people there is no religion........Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
But it is not the fault of religion that there is wars, it is people misinterpreting their good books that leads to wars.Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
Therefore, if there were no religion, there would be a lot less war......Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
Might as well say if there was no metal for swords, bullets, guns etc there would be no wars. But am sure pre religion cave men would fight over caves, women, food etc. So no religion is NOT the cause of wars.Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
Indeed, but you will note I said 'a lot less war'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
I understand that Rudy, and I'm sure that's why most people think abortion is ok. But it's a slippery road. Without going "there", under this belief what stops someone from saying you don't have blond hair and blue eyes, your right to life is hereby revoked?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy Tamasz
Honestly it doesn't matter if the Bible is pure fact or pure fary tail. It doesn't even matter if you believe in it or not. The point is that common law has its basis in the 10 Commandments, like it or not, believe it or not. People millinia ago did believe it, and based laws on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
Really, hmmmm, Genghis Khan and Alexander the Great, what religion drove their military campaigns. The same would go for the Roman Empire.Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
Are you saying religion based war is the creation of modern man?
Are you saying God is evil for causing spontaneous abortions in women?Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
(To be fair, I think abortion should be illegal after the first tri-mester-- except for medical yada-yada-yada....)
If the Bible is a farce, Christians lose nothing; if it is fact, Christians gained a blessed eternity.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
But that assumes that the 10 commandments were invented on the spot and before that it was ok to steal and murder?
Perhaps they are just the first recorded record of what was already well understood.
Bob, I don't really think going down this religous path with you is adding anything to the point of discussion. We have strayed from the point, where do the rights of man come from?
You seem to believe that they have been granted by some "legal" entity at some point in our history. My take on that is to say that if rights were granted by a "legal" entity at some arbitrary point in time, they can just as easily be taken away at an arbitrary point in time. How do you propose that we may protect our rights if this is the case?
That's not strictly true either... it is accepted by many that we and apes evolved from a common ancestor. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
The price of freedom is eternal vigilence?
Are you implying that without your bible there would be no common law?Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
It's the other way round: the 10 commandments were more likely based on the common law at that point in space and time :)
That very well could be the case. But the people that wrote them down believed them to be God-given. And the people who have based law on them for millinia have also believed them to be God-given. So if you believe them to be truly God-given or not honestly doesn't matter at this point. They are what they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark
Again, that could be the case. But then they are just a codification of what was believed to be God-given law.Quote:
Originally Posted by donKey jote
Bingo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark
The Bible, I believe, calls the Jews a hard-headed people, so the Ten Commandments were God's way refreshing what already existed and making them a written absolute.
What happened when Moses came down with the first copy showed what happens when God gets out the Holy Two-by-Four.
That is why the Second Amendment exists.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
The writers of the Constitution knew government is not an inherently good body, and if it becomes corrupted there must be a way for what it took the country to come into existance to be repeated, if need be.
I agree with what you have said in this post 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
However, I'm not sure it is 100% consistent with what you have said. What I mean is, you seem to be arguing that your rights come from government or the law, whatever. If that is the case, and government or the law takes said rights away, what basis do you have for your revolution?
There must be firm grounding for your rights. That grounding can be God, nature, human consiousness, whatever. There is just too much ambiguity, changability, or arbitraryness in basing your fundamental rights in "the law".
The grounding for any rights, whether Federal or State, comes from the Constitution, whether Federal or State.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
Those cannot be taken away, except by Constitutional Amendment, in which case fools may end-up serving their own folly.
The way this/these government/s, and the courts, seem to be ignoring, or trying to rewrite, rather than follow, the current Constitution/s in their own image, is very disturbing.
Other countries also have Constitutions, how strong they are depends on how strong the people are in defending their rights rather than being servants of the government.
Venezuela, is now a place to watch for the Constitution verses the Government. (Courts serving the Constitution vs. the Government is also an item that must be watched closely.)
Are you then saying that the Founding Fathers just made up rights when they wrote the Constitution?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
If we got a Constiutional Amendment stating that anyone named Bob must be a slave to the rest of society, or die, you'd be just fine with that?
You got it.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
We had a thing where everyone from Africa was a slave to society. The Constitution and a war did away with that.
Although Lincoln actually ignored parts of the Constitution to save the Union. Nothing in government does not have flaws.
The dealing of the Missouri-Kansas border war that led in to the Civil War, emphasized the failing and imperfecton of laws, and why chaos is sometimes better than the letter of the law.
I clearly stated in my first (or one of) post in this thread that the US is not perfect, there are flaws with our Constitution, our laws, and our leaders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
But please clarify one thing for me. Are you actually saying that the Founders just pulled rights out of the sky? That somehow they didn't believe the words they wrote?or how about thisQuote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
What is this Law or Nature and Nature's God which they speak, if as you say they pulled rights out of thin air?Quote:
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
There is no such thing as God given rights according to Bob. He is in effect saying that the Founders just pulled rights out of the sky.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
Even when presented with reasonable grounds taken from the bible (which he demands as the only allowable source) he still refused to concede that natural rights exist. (See pages 6 & 7)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Feds to design health insurance for the masses
In this case Government is Very, Very Evil!!!