It was a very dangerous move. All Lewis fans have to understrand, he could also get hurt.
And the conclusion, use your brain.
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It was a very dangerous move. All Lewis fans have to understrand, he could also get hurt.
And the conclusion, use your brain.
Oh please, this thread, the posts on this thread, and countless others based off of two races in 2011 is enough evidence that some people have serious beef with Lewis. Every single action of his sparks so much overreaction, it's amazing. And add to that, the weekly threads about Hamilton by 555-IQ-OF-20 (I kid, I kid) :p in the cloak of lightheartedness where all Lewis haters get together and have a nice little bonfire is evidence enough. It's for everyone to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
I ask again, why didn't anyone call for a race ban on Sebastian Vettel for his bonehead moves at Turkey, Silverstone and Spa in 2010?
The extensive brain usage on your amazing one liners are excellent examples. :up: :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia 01
Tbh I always said the Turkey incident was 50:50. Sebastian was coming over slowly and his team mate just flat out refused to move at all. But anyhoo.....Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden
If you can't accept that some people genuinely don't like the way Lewis drivers then I feel sorry for you.
We can again have countless pages of discussion how the incident with Massa and Maldonado at Monaco was 50-50, if you want to. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Dislike for a driver's style I can understand. The annoyance is over some people being anal about something as petty or ridiculous as a penalty not being harsh enough. So, it's not enough that a penalty was dished out for a no-contact incident, was taken, and the driver even apologized for it, but here we have 1000 pages of people still whining over it. If this is not unreasonable beef with a certain individual, then I don't know what is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
God forbid if Lewis ever did anything like this, Mark would make a million dollars in a day off of traffic generated by Lewis haters alone.
[youtube]Jjls3SIbcH8[/youtube]
Tbh I think that any driver who does that should never race in anything ever again, not evern karts.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden
Well, he's still racing, and what's worse, coached some kids on a racing reality series on TV. If Lewis ever does anything that irresponsible, like Paul Tracy, then his criticism is 100% justified. His move at Hungaroring was reckless, yes, but he got his penalty and apologized, the affected driver didn't mind, case closed. Multiple pages in a thread with people whining over the penalty not being harsh enough means only one thing. The trolls were not fed enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
and if you look back I said that it's not a huge deal, the deal for me is the Lewis fanclub coming on here and almost making out that he'd done nothing wrong, and then trying to brand everyone who took issue with the move as some kind of hater :dozey:Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden
This sort of topic is getting tiring to say the least when people are getting branded as haters for merely having an opinion.
I really haven't seen anybody doing that in this thread. I for one have maintained, and I think almost everybody else agrees that the move was wreckless, the penalty was well, just, even though there was no contact, the apology was classy, Di Resta wasn't bothered, end of chapter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
But I guess people have to do SOME thing with their free time...
And, beyond that, why does it matter?Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden
So , my dislike of Lewis's style of pannicking when under pressure lately you can understand , then ?Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden
Good .
If he had been able to do his spin before they got there , I would be here congratulating him with you .
You believe the penalty just , and I don't think it was enough .
That's fine . At least it was recognized as a no-no .
I don't want to see that again , from anyone .
As far as the vid goes , and not to really cast Lewis as bad as Tracy , but if the others had not anticipated as well , or if he hadn't managed that maneouvre quite as deftly , he might have tangled up a number of cars , trying to spin it into the marbles outside the second part of the chicane , he might have turned up looking pretty much as silly .
I never mentioned that he did nothing wrong. My whole point about this is that as soon as Lewis is mentioned certain members of the board see red. The number of anti-Lewis threads on the front page of this forum alone about Lewis supports this view.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
It wans't dangerous no. It was deliberately cheating though. Lewis never had intent. He simply didn't see DiResta. My whole point of bringing up Perez/Trulli incident is that no one cares and harps on the band wagon unless Lewis is involved. There is no other driver that would generate this much discussion. People have an issue with Lewis. You may not be one of those people. I've only ever seen you criticise him but, as said above, the number of threads on the opening page alone of this forum criticising Lewis shows a few forum members certainly hold some sort of grudge against him. If you are unable to see this, then fine. It's glaringly obvious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
Were you as vocal in your criticism of Sebastian Vettel in 2010?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
Coulda, shoulda, ifs and buts. He didn't crash into anyone and left enough room on that side of the track. FFS Di Resta's right tyres were slightly off the white line on the outside of the kerb. If he would have tangled, I'd have agreed with a much harsher penalty. Neither Barrichello before or Di Resta after created a fuss about it. The drivers knew what they were doing. Lewis didn't create an accident.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
IMO a drive through penalty was more than enough for only making a car go slightly off track. There was no contact, nobody's race got ruined. The apology later to Paul should have closed the book.
I am yet to find an answer to my earlier question in this thread. Why wasn't there an outburst like this by fans for Sebastian Vettel in 2010, when his drives were equally or even more boneheaded? I'm talking about tangling with Webber at Turkey, almost taking himself and Lewis out at Silverstone, and taking Button out at Spa? That's more than what Lewis has done in 2011.
Baggy. It was debatable but the Stewards decided that as Paul left the track, Lewis deserved a drive thru. The commentators didn't think it deserved a penalty but when he did get one, I don't think many people thought it was harsh and accepted it. Personally, I believe it was debatable but it was fine getting a drive thru.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
Saying something is debatable surely means there are pro's and cons. I saw a skilled driver do a spin practically on the spot and get our of a dangerous track position. He didn't hit anyone or ruin anyone's race but technically should have waited for Paul to pass. I really don't see what all this fuss is about?
So Lewis fans can say coulda shoulda woulda but non-Lewis fans can't?Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden
Think back to Turkey, there was MASSIVE criticism of Vettel!!!!
Thanks for that .Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden
That's an answer to my question about the "what ifs" here .
DiResta alluded to a scenario he wouldn't have liked when he spoke about points . If the Lewis move had cost he points , he might not have felt the same about that move .
If he had hit someone , it would have been a mess of which not even you would not absolve him .
So , we must be in agreement , then , that the potential for a real disaster was there .
But apparently because no accident happened then it's fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
I've never meant to give the impression that it wasn't an awe-inspiring piece of driving . It was .Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro Formula 1
He "technically should have waited" , is exactly what I'm on about .
He should have , because of the potential to take several others out .
They got him for causing Paul to leave the racing surface , but they would not have charged him with that , had he stayed put , even if Paul had had to do much the same action .
Next time , I hope he waits , and does the the technically proper thing .
Did I say they can't? Plus you're really missing the point I'm trying to make by a landslide.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
And equal criticism of Webber as well. Vettel fans criticizing Webber and vice versa. A few posts ago you said you saw the incident with Vettel and Webber as 50-50, and yet in the Monaco 2011 thread I remember you saying that the onus of a clean overtake lies 100% with the overtaker. Why the double standards Daniel? We can very easily assign 50-50 fault on the incident with Maldonado and Massa at Monaco this year as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
More importantly, in 2010 I don't remember anybody calling for race bans on Vettel. Spa 2010 was his second, almost third big example of reckless driving. I don't remember anybody asking for harsher penalties, race bans, beheading etc. like folks are doing for Lewis this year.
In fact, Schumacher has had more brain farts, pushing and shoving, front wings taken off and collided with more cars in the last two years than any other front running driver. Why isn't he on the receiving end of the stick?
But did the disaster happen? Should the stewards decide the penalties based on what "COULD" have happened or what "DID" happen? Hamilton forced another car off track, got the drive through penalty. In your opinion, he should have gotten a much harsher penalty based on what COULD have happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
So, Schumacher was handed a 10 place grid penalty for his squeeze on Barrichello on the main straight at well over 300 KMPH at Hungary 2010. IF they would have touched, there could have been a huge disaster, the car could have rolled multiple times, Barrichello could have been fatally injured. He also turned into Villenueve in 1997 knowing full well that it was really dangerous and stupid at those speeds. The penalties he got for them were pretty nonsensical. Maybe Schumacher should have been handed a life imprisonment for what COULD have happened in those two incidents?
Why if someone criticises one driver for an incident with another is the driver automatically a fan or a hater of one of the drivers? I felt it was 60:40 in turkey with Webber @ 60%, how does that mean I'm a Vettel fan. Stop labelling people when they're not even a fan of one driver......Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden
Where did I say you were a Vettel fan? Do you have comprehension problems? I said after the incident Vettel fans were criticizing Webber and vice versa, i.e. Webber fans were criticizing Vettel. Where do you come in the picture?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
you could read it easily the opposite way round - you (people) said it wasn't a huge deal, and the problem was the Lewis lynchmob coming on here making out he's some pycho with a death wish and no respect for his or anyone elses life, demanding justice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
The same tiresome problem persists where anyone with the opposite opinion to yours gets called fanboy, biased etc etc. Its the other side of the same ****ty coin. There are some fans and some probable haters, but most people have a view on it and Lewis which is not as strong, but gets lumped in with the same opposition for having the opinion. The very same you've just done.
Other than one quoted point where it was said that the incident was debatable at best and the oenalty was probably fair, i've still not seen anything to suggest that Lewis was in the right or that the penalty wasn't correct. only defending that it wasn't SO bad that he was trying to kill or deserved race bans or worse. The first stones were cast from the "side" asking for more serious penalties, the "excessive defence" followed. IMO both sides and opinions were excessive, It was a stupid mistake, deserved a penalty and was dealt with to the satisfaction of all involved.
It is a fact that Lewis does attract an immense amount of strong feelings both pro and anti, to the extent I've not seen since MS was in his prime. I have to say I see it differently only because I find myself defending Lewis more often than attacking him and I do have a soft spot for him without being a diehard supporter. In this case I am happy to fall on the attacking side to the extent, like I said, I agreed with the penalty and that I Think it was a careless and foolish move.
No its not fine, there was an incident, that was punished. Cause and effect. If the effect had been greater, such as removing another driver from his position, or from the race, then the penalty is likely to be harsher. You can't punish someone for something that didn't happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Thats why we have things like attempted murder and murder. (albeit then we are talking about intent rather than carelessness)
no, it means you're a webber hater obviously ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
I agree with you, an opinion doesn't mean you have to be labelled as either a fanboi or a hater, its ridiculous, but people love to label, especially when it opposes their view as its the easiest way to cheapen the opposing arguement by making them see irrational. Thankfully most people see through it
Of course. But people should be punished for careless actions which could have caused injury but didn'tQuote:
Originally Posted by Robinho
If a car nearly hits me after I walked across the street in front of it because I didn't see it coming, should I be punished?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
In your answer, keep in mind that this sort of incident occurs umpteen times every day on the street. I'd be willing to lay money that you and every other member of this forum has done something like that at some stage in their lives.
agreed, and in this case he was. the move was deemed dangerous enough to warrant a penalty, but a penalty for potential will never be as great as one for actual harmQuote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
I'm sorry, but that's a ridiculous statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinho
I agree, but my point is that Lewis seems to get involved in these sorts of incidents more often than other drivers. I think we need to start looking at a yellow car system where if over a year you get a certain amount of penalties then you have to sit out a race or you lose a certain amount of points. Penalties for things like not giving back a position (Lewis vs Kimi @ Spa) or technical infringements should not count of course, only penalties for contact with other drivers etc etc
I think the fact we are still complaining about inconsistant penalties being applied (or the lack of transparancy on decisions) means we aren't in a state where we can introduce a sin-binning type approach.
True. Definitely need a dedicated team of stewards who can demonstrate the ability to be consistent before we go sin binning anyone.......Quote:
Originally Posted by TMorel
You find it ridiculous because it doesn't suit your previous ridiculous statement. I described exactly the situation you said people should be punished for, therefore, I'm going to assume you admit that your statement was also ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
It's ridiculous because the two situations are nothing alike.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
LOL They are exactly the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Here is your quote:
Now, I'll explain this simply so you can undestand. I walk out in front of a car without looking properly - careless action.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
I could have caused injury to myself but I didn't. I could also have caused injury to the car that was forced to take avoiding action or brake suddenly (take your pic of whatever action the car had to take) to avoid me. Even worse, if the the car had to swerve to avoid me, they could have hit another pedestrian, or even another car. Who knows what may have happened. There could have been multiple injuries and fatalities.
So, clearly it was a careless action that could have caused injury, which satisifies all criteria in your ridiculous statement. Should we start punishing everyone that walks out in front of car and doesn't see it? Could create lots of employment for people policing such laws :D
Walking out in front of a car will pretty much only cause injury to yourself. Hamilton was more likely to injure someone else. Completely different.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
Please reread the second paragraph of my last post. You're wrong and you know it. It's kind of funny seeing you deny it such an abismal manner really LOL :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
I believe that you are rather confused. Walking out in front of a car, you're only really going to injure yourself. Spinning your car around on a race track rather than just staying still, quite likely to injure someone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
yes, Lewis could have hurt himself, but that's not why he got the penalty and why he got all of his other penalties, it's because he endangered other people. Walking out in front of a car endangers you and you alone. Your analogy is rubbish, sorry.
Oh dear. You appear to be having a slow day. I'm going to quote what you said and explain again, just so you can catch up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Lets make it clear that we are no longer talking about Lewis here so please stop backtracking by referring back to Sunday's incident. Your statement clearly says PEOPLE! That could mean anyone. If you meant F1 drivers only, then you might want to correct your ridiculous statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
My analogy is absolutely correct. I believe my 5 year old nephew would be able to figure it out. I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you are generally smarter than a 5 year old and are either having a brain fade day, or you're really desperate to not admit you are incorrect.
By the way, when I was 14 I saw an old woman walk out in front of a car. Trying to avoid her the driver swerved and, in doing so, he went up onto the kerb on the opposite side of the road and smashed hit a kid in my school two years ahead of me. Luckily, he lived, but his legs were broken in about multiple different places and he has never been right since. The driver also suffered minor injuries. Should this old woman have been punished?
Not to be funny, but if we're not talking about Lewis, why are we in this thread? Go post in Chit Chat if you want to discuss whether people stepping out in front of cars should be punished.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight