Movable Floors

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The impact of the FIA clampdown on movable floors in Formula One has been felt by teams beyond those at the centre of the controversy, but is unlikely to make much difference to the fight at the front of the field...although the impact of the new test has been widely felt, Williams technical director Sam Michael believes it will ultimately make little difference to the status quo in F1.
"It is not going to make a big change to be honest," he said. "Our floor is fine, but even those who have had to modify, it is not a big thing. I don't know why it has become such a big issue."

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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/57748

It became such a big issue because journalists need something to report during the three-week hiatus :)

Well it was always as clear as that given that the FIA said that any device connecting will have to be removed when they test the floors. So not only Ferrari and BMW but also the rest of them had to change thing in that area.

Logically if floor + spring are within the flexibility limits when subjected to certain efforts than it's not much more difficult to make a floor that will stand the same efforts.

As for flexing more when subjected to higher efforts, don't worry for that, materials since gave engineers the know how to make almost whatever they want. ;)

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Originally Posted by ioan

Well it was always as clear as that given that the FIA said that any device connecting will have to be removed when they test the floors. So not only Ferrari and BMW but also the rest of them had to change thing in that area.

Logically if floor + spring are within the flexibility limits when subjected to certain efforts than it's not much more difficult to make a floor that will stand the same efforts.

As for flexing more when subjected to higher efforts, don't worry for that, materials since gave engineers the know how to make almost whatever they want. ;)

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My guess is that those teams using springs were doing so in order to have the front of the floor bend quite considerably under load. IANAMS but I'd be surprised if they can achieve the same flexibility in the floor if it has to be strong enough to pass the test without the aid of springs.

I doubt that it will make much difference to the relative performance between teams but I am surprised that the scrutineers at Australia didn't think it was necessary to ask for clarification when they saw the system for the first time. You know, given all the fuss in the past about diffusers, mass dampers and fuel tanks and stuff.

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Originally Posted by icsunonove

My guess is that those teams using springs were doing so in order to have the front of the floor bend quite considerably under load. IANAMS but I'd be surprised if they can achieve the same flexibility in the floor if it has to be strong enough to pass the test without the aid of springs.

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Flexibility of old Floor + springs= Flexibility of new Floor, the only difference is the difficulty to achieve the same result, but they have the tools to do it.

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Originally Posted by icsunonove

I doubt that it will make much difference to the relative performance between teams but I am surprised that the scrutineers at Australia didn't think it was necessary to ask for clarification when they saw the system for the first time. You know, given all the fuss in the past about diffusers, mass dampers and fuel tanks and stuff.

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Scrutineers only do check if the bodyparts pas the tests, I can hardly remember them questioning anything that passed the tests.

OK, stupid question of the day - stupid in the sense that I have lost touch of what has happened with the later developments of the "cheat" accusations.

Here goes:

Will Ferrari have the same floor "characteristics" for this race?

and/or will the others follow suit because Ferrari is allowed to continue to do so?


thanks for the update . . . .

:s mokin:

Ferrari and Sauber aren't allowed to continue with their floors. The testing regulations have been altered, as to dis-allow the "pivots and spring" mounting structure. Which by the way was briliantly orchestrated by McLaren IMO. Instead of protesting the flexing floors, they asked for FIA clarification and approval of an identical design. In turn the FIA adjusted the testing regulations to make it impossible for such a system to work. The floor without the "pivots and spring" must be able to sustain the load test, in effect making it impossible for the "pivots and spring" to function.

And rumor has it that Ferrari and Sauber weren't the only ones effected. It's estimated that only 3 or 4 teams didn't have to alter their designs.

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Originally Posted by jjanicke

Ferrari and Sauber aren't allowed to continue with their floors. The testing regulations have been altered, as to dis-allow the "pivots and spring" mounting structure. Which by the way was briliantly orchestrated by McLaren IMO. Instead of protesting the flexing floors, they asked for FIA clarification and approval of an identical design. In turn the FIA adjusted the testing regulations to make it impossible for such a system to work. The floor without the "pivots and spring" must be able to sustain the load test, in effect making it impossible for the "pivots and spring" to function.

And rumor has it that Ferrari and Sauber weren't the only ones effected. It's estimated that only 3 or 4 teams didn't have to alter their designs.

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In fact the "pivot and spring" device isn't allowed to be on when the scrutineering test are done to measure the flexing of the floor, but they can still use them on track.

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Originally Posted by ioan

In fact the "pivot and spring" device isn't allowed to be on when the scrutineering test are done to measure the flexing of the floor, but they can still use them on track.

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sorry ioan, I don't understand.

:s mokin:

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Originally Posted by race aficionado

sorry ioan, I don't understand.

:s mokin:

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It is like Ioan says - these devices can be used, but the floor in itself has to be stiff enough to pass the test without the thingie installed.

After the car has past the floor test they can put the thing back, if they want to.

thanks Juppe
:)

So the best car is the one without the moveable floor or is it the best driver won? I bet the latter.
:s mokin:

It seems as if there are "fears that some teams are still trying to exploit the regulations" regarding moveable floors.

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Following detailed examination of car floors by the FIA at the Malaysian and Bahrain Grands Prix, the governing body is still not convinced teams are all operating within the regulations, so it has now radically toughened up its tests.

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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/58340

Nest, some teams will want to have movable wings to avoid damage when hitting curbs. :p :

Well given that they went from 500 to 2000 N (4 times more!) I believe that the FIA have some serious troubles trying to police this area of the cars.

The real question is though: "Why, after asking them to remove all devices mounted on the floor when testing it, the FIA now goes to a whole new level of hysteria and dramatically increases the test load?"

What is warranting this change?
I would like to know who complained this time.

Or maybe at the FIA they just realised that 500N = 50.97 kgs not 500kgs! :D

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Originally Posted by savage86

Ron should have complained, Ferrari are terrible at this kind of thing anyway.

1998 Mclaren and three other teams are using this extra brake pedal. Ferrari protest and it is banned by Brazil.

Renault mass damper, Ferrari cant get them to work that well so they somehow get the damper banned. Even though they were not a moveable aerodynamic device.
Ferrari wheel covers come in (which are) people complain but nothing is done.

Also Ferrari protested about the tyres in 2003 and the FIA made Michelin change them.

They are terrible sports and for you guys to now make fun of Ron for protesting. well I hope this floor of there's does get banned might be some justice.

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I smell dead horse. :dozey:

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Originally Posted by ioan

Well given that they went from 500 to 2000 N (4 times more!) I believe that the FIA have some serious troubles trying to police this area of the cars.

The real question is though: "Why, after asking them to remove all devices mounted on the floor when testing it, the FIA now goes to a whole new level of hysteria and dramatically increases the test load?"

What is warranting this change?
I would like to know who complained this time.

Or maybe at the FIA they just realised that 500N = 50.97 kgs not 500kgs! :D

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This is very interesting, I think that it is NOT McLaren this time.

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Originally Posted by F1boat

This is very interesting, I think that it is NOT McLaren this time.

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Maybe it's Ferrari or BMW who discovered something on the McLarens? :D

I admit that I hope so.