Osama Bin Laden Is Dead

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I disagree. The guy was repsonsible for a lot of deaths. his death is a good thing

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But so is George W Bush, infact i'd say that GWB has much more lives on his concious then OBL.
Almost 6000 Americans have been killed in the two wars started by GWB.
Add to that the civilian casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan and GWB is hardly an "innocent man".
Which is 100'000+ just in Iraq and 10'000+ in Afghanistan.

4400 of them have died in Iraq. and 1500 have been killed in Afghanistan. source= US department of Defence.

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/fallen/
http://siadapp.dmdc.osd.mil/personne...aths-total.pdf
http://siadapp.dmdc.osd.mil/personne.../oefdeaths.pdf
http://siadapp.dmdc.osd.mil/personne...LTY/castop.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan_war

so if OBL is a cruel monster what does that make GWB?

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

How do we know that he is actually dead? Has a picture of his body been confirmed?

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the only evidence we have is that the USA officials says he's dead.

^^^^ I know you are playing devils advocate but are you really comparing Bin Laden with George W Bush?

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Didnt BBC make the same mistake?

Death of scum like Osama is great news, I will open a champagne bottle today evening to celebrate it with friends. The only sad things about his death is that I didnt get the opportunity to take a piss on his corpse and that he wasnt subjected to a 6 month continuous rape by homosexual rapists, which he so richly would have deserved.
But dont worry Eki, I am sure you will find a new hero soon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

Yeah, it is a shame so few were celebrating the death of such scum.

Many of these people had their loved ones die a horrendous death due to this scum, I would have celebrated too.

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To me it seems that Americans can never do anything right. Whatever they do, they are always criticised.[/QUOTE]There is a bunch of people who attack USA for whatever they do, forgetting that without USA the world would be a much poorer and worse place.


That is the worst thing about it[/QUOTE]

This is a great post and I agree with it 100% - I find it quite interesting that the anti- American sentiment on this forum by and large condemns us for killing this POS. There will always be the argument about our Global influence and frankly I am good with less intervention. You guys will have no appreciation until you are attacked like we were. Yes I know all you TIREs are going to say we wouldn't have if we stayed at home. Maybe so but the long and short of it is:
1. Don't Attack this country
2. Keep on and something is going to end up "glowing" for a long time.

I have seen a post condemning Guantanamo which is so stupid of course unless you support the no prisoners stance. I think Guantanamo is great for terrorists.

Markabilly's post was very good also - Dave B and a few others are totally disgusting

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Originally Posted by Roamy

This is a great post and I agree with it 100% - I find it quite interesting that the anti- American sentiment on this forum by and large condemns us for killing this POS. There will always be the argument about our Global influence and frankly I am good with less intervention. You guys will have no appreciation until you are attacked like we were. Yes I know all you TIREs are going to say we wouldn't have if we stayed at home. Maybe so but the long and short of it is:
1. Don't Attack this country
2. Keep on and something is going to end up "glowing" for a long time.

I have seen a post condemning Guantanamo which is so stupid of course unless you support the no prisoners stance. I think Guantanamo is great for terrorists.

Markabilly's post was very good also - Dave B and a few others are totally disgusting

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Surely Roamy, you must agree that fanning the flames is never a good thing. I applaud the US for doing the right thing with Osama's body and burying it within 24 hours of death. If they hadn't this would have given more fuel to the terrorists and that of course is a bad thing.

I think you'll find that most people DON'T condemn the USA for killing Ozzy, most feel that this is OK, or that perhaps it would have been better if it went to trial. Personally I don't see the point in a trial when the guy has publicly admitted what he ordered. Dead or alive, all that matters is that he now can't give orders. To have done the things to his body that garry was suggesting would merely give some moron the fuel he needs to launch another attack on the US or its allies and that would be the ultimate way of giving Ozzy what he wanted.

I think it will be impossible to say whether the war on terrorism has been a success or was even necessary (we'd require a parallel universe to see what life would have been like without it). The natural course that things have taken seems to be that these radical muslims started killing their own less radical people and that was always going to cause the power base of factions like Al Qaeda to shrink. The the recent revolutions seem intent on securing democracy rather than bringing about oppressive regimes says that the vast majority of muslims simply want a prosperous life for themselves with a good dose of freedom and couldn't give a flying **** about other countries and just want their own house in order.

"When thy enemy shall fall, be not glad, and in his ruin let not thy heart rejoice."--Proverbs. 24:17

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Originally Posted by Dave B

I find it rather distateful that people are celebrating the death of Bin Laden,

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Oh do grow a backbone.

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it would have been far preferable if he'd been put on trial.

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Why? How would that have improved things at all? You think he would have been less of a martyr for jihadists then? Or that it is somehow unjust to shoot someone like him without a trial (during the trial we should have of course provided to him the best facilities to make sure his human rights are not breached)?

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That said I won't exactly lose any sleep that he's dead, but I do wonder at the sanity of people who believe the world is somehow a magical safe place where the biggest risk to our safety is tripping over a rainbow and stabbing yourself on a unicorn's horn.

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Who here has stated this? Find quotes please. What people have said that justice has taken place and a small step towards making the world a better place has been made. I have yet to see anyone say that there is no threat from terrorism anymore.

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Originally Posted by BleAivano

But so is George W Bush, infact i'd say that GWB has much more lives on his concious then OBL.
Almost 6000 Americans have been killed in the two wars started by GWB.
Add to that the civilian casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan and GWB is hardly an "innocent man".
Which is 100'000+ just in Iraq and 10'000+ in Afghanistan.

4400 of them have died in Iraq. and 1500 have been killed in Afghanistan. source= US department of Defence.

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/fallen/
http://siadapp.dmdc.osd.mil/personne...aths-total.pdf
http://siadapp.dmdc.osd.mil/personne.../oefdeaths.pdf
http://siadapp.dmdc.osd.mil/personne...LTY/castop.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan_war

so if OBL is a cruel monster what does that make GWB?

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I dont know what that makes of GWB, but I know that for you to post such stuff can only mean that you are one of the biggest candidates for the heavyweight imbecile championship of the world. In fact, having again read your shi... post, congrats on winning the title.

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Originally Posted by Roamy

This is a great post and I agree with it 100% - I find it quite interesting that the anti- American sentiment on this forum by and large condemns us for killing this POS. There will always be the argument about our Global influence and frankly I am good with less intervention. You guys will have no appreciation until you are attacked like we were. Yes I know all you TIREs are going to say we wouldn't have if we stayed at home. Maybe so but the long and short of it is:
1. Don't Attack this country
2. Keep on and something is going to end up "glowing" for a long time.

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America is not perfect and has made mistakes, but that comes with the territory of being the most powerful country in the world. Would the world be better off if the biggest super power in the world was Russia/Soviet Union or China?

I find the fact that my post has "disgusted" fousto and upset Garry rather pleasing. :)

what's the difference?

http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pic...5/3368460d.jpg

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Originally Posted by Dave B

I find the fact that my post has "disgusted" fousto and upset Garry rather pleasing. :)

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:rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Dont worry, you didnt. It takes a bit more than a comment from some internet sissy for me to get upset.

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

what's the difference?

http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pic...5/3368460d.jpg

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Oh great, another idiot.

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Originally Posted by Roamy

You guys will have no appreciation until you are attacked like we were.

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According to wikileaks, Al Qaeda has threatened to detonate a nuclear bomb in Europe if Osama is killed. Fellow Europeans, let's all say "THANK YOU, AMERICA".

I guess you Americans have no chance to understand that they will attack you (and thanks to you, now maybe also us) as long as you give them excuses to attack.

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Originally Posted by cali

Iraq was/is all about oil money .... actually .... these missions are all about money or to gain profit and nothing else

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That is cheap talk. In Kuwait that was a known fact, but give some sort of proof for profit in Afghanistan or oil in Iraq.
It is actually rather obtuse rhetoric at best without proof.

Who in the U.S. or Europe has made this big oil profit and just who made big money in Afghanistan.

If you are saying all politics is driven by money, including relief efforts, you might have straw to lean on, but let's see some proof to your specific claim.

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Originally Posted by Dave B

it would have been far preferable if he'd been put on trial. .

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Why?

It would be impossible to give him a trial that wasn't biased, and what would be the point anyway? There wasn't a more guilty man on the planet.

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

Why?

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Because by killing him we risk sinking to his level. We're better than that, supposedly.

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It would be impossible to give him a trial that wasn't biased, and what would be the point anyway? There wasn't a more guilty man on the planet.

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I fail to see how a trial would be biased, as you say the evidence is pretty damning. He should have spent his days rotting in a cell, now he's a martyr. At least they had the sense to bury him at sea.

Still, what's done is done. It just repulses me that the country which acts as the world's policeman is so hypocritical that it runs illegal torture facilities and breaches international law on prisoner detention. And, as I aluded to earlier, I'm disappointed that a president who campaigned on a platform of "change" has gone against a clear election pledge, although as a UK resident I'm well used to that!

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

"The United States invasion of Panama was launched on December 20, 1989. Losses on the U.S. side were 24 troops, plus 3 civilian casualties. Statistics of the number of Panamanian civilian deaths remain disputed; the New York Times and Newsweek magazine reported between 202 and 220.[citation needed] The conflict also caused some considerable internal displacement, with 20,000 to 30,000 having been rendered homeless.[citation needed]

On December 29, the General Assembly of the United Nations voted 75–20 with 40 abstentions to condemn the invasion as a flagrant violation of international law.[19][20] According to a CBS poll, 92% of Panamanian adults supported the U.S. incursion, and 76% wished that U.S. forces had invaded in October during the coup.[21] However, others dispute this finding, claiming that the Panamanian surveys were completed in wealthy, English-speaking neighborhoods in Panama City, among Panamanians most likely to support US actions"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Noriega

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Quote Originally Posted by Bob Riebe View Post
Please give me a net link to their deliberate attacks on civilians not connected to a war in progress-- if it is on the net it has to be true..

So you are saying they attacked with the sole purpose to kill those civilians supposedly killed?

] According to a CBS poll, 92% of Panamanian adults supported the U.S. incursion, and 76% wished that U.S. forces had invaded in October during the coup.

Try again you made your claim look silly.

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Originally Posted by Roamy

You guys will have no appreciation until you are attacked like we were.

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Oh please. :rolleyes:

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/200...08_468x325.jpg

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/SRR/Vo...ridBombing.jpg

http://www.zgeek.com/forum/gallery/f.../8/bombing.jpg

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Originally Posted by Dave B

I find it rather distateful that people are celebrating the death of Bin Laden, it would have been far preferable if he'd been put on trial. That said I won't exactly lose any sleep that he's dead, but I do wonder at the sanity of people who believe the world is somehow a magical safe place where the biggest risk to our safety is tripping over a rainbow and stabbing yourself on a unicorn's horn.

Talking of trial, I hope that now the USA has disposed of its supposed main threat it will close Guantanamo Bay and either charge or release the inmates. They have no right to call themselves a civilsed society while they operate an illegal torture facility, if any other country acted in such a way it would be described as a War Crime. The failure to follow through with this election promise is, for me as a foreigner, the biggest single disappointment of the Obama administration.

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Are you actually saying, you are naive enough to think that Osama is the only, much less the real, threat out there?

Good grief, Osama has been a bench player for a long time, it is ONLY good that Pres. Obama had the balls to show that if, for any reason. the U.S. Gov. truly wants you dead, you are like a girdled tree, you are dead, you just do not know it.
One down, time to clean the weapons before the next search and destroy mission.

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Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

Of course, but his death is much more preferable to him being alive and on the run. We can only hope with the hard drives found at his compound that other senior Al Qaeda members can be captured and put on trial.

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Shoot the *******s dead and save the circus atmosphere and a lot of money.
Eric Holder made an ass out himself, Obama and the U.S. by putting a terrorist on trial, I think, hope, Pres. Obama learned his lesson. Sometimes learning the hard-way is the best way.

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Originally Posted by Eki

According to wikileaks, Al Qaeda has threatened to detonate a nuclear bomb in Europe if Osama is killed.

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SO?

Sidenote...

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

Oh please. :rolleyes:

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/SRR/Vo...ridBombing.jpg

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if you listen to the PP (Spanish Tories) conspiracy theorists in Spain, the latest being the President of the Madrid autonomous region only yesterday, that wasn't Al Qaeda as they according to her never officially acknowledged it... hence it was ETA, hence Aznar -the hero of the Azores- didn't lie, hence Zapatero stole the elections 7 years ago ! :dozey:

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

SO?

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That would be a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

...
Who in the U.S. ... has made this big oil profit ....

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Oh dear... :erm:

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Originally Posted by Daniel

That would be a bad thing.

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I don't think Bob is that naive! :p

I think he is trying to point out that Al Qaeda say they will do a lot of things, whether they are capable or not.

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Originally Posted by schmenke

Oh dear... :erm:

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Tell me which U.S. oil company has made money off of Iraq, come on, you can do it.

If you cannot-- oh dear http://www.motorsportforums.com/foru...milies/erm.gif

I wonder how efficient wiki-leaks is right now, it would be interesting to see if this is true or not, but other web sources give Panetta a lot of credit.
Now if Panetta ran for president, he could be a night-mare for Republicans.

Q: You stated that President Obama was “overruled” by military/intelligence officials regarding the decision to send in military specialists into the Osama Bin Laden compound. Was that accurate?

A: I was told – in these exact terms, “we overruled him.” (Obama) I have since followed up and received further details on exactly what that meant, as well as the specifics of how Leon Panetta worked around the president’s “persistent hesitation to act.” There appears NOT to have been an outright overruling of any specific position by President Obama, simply because there was no specific position from the president to do so. President Obama was, in this case, as in all others, working as an absentee president.
Read more in Issues

I was correct in stating there had been a push to invade the compound for several weeks if not months, primarily led by Leon Panetta, Hillary Clinton, Robert Gates, David Petraeus, and Jim Clapper. The primary opposition to this plan originated from Valerie Jarrett, and it was her opposition that was enough to create uncertainty within President Obama. Obama would meet with various components of the pro-invasion faction, almost always with Jarrett present, and then often fail to indicate his position. This situation continued for some time, though the division between Jarrett/Obama and the rest intensified more recently, most notably from Hillary Clinton. She was livid over the president’s failure to act, and her office began a campaign of anonymous leaks to the media indicating such. As for Jarrett, her concern rested on two primary fronts. One, that the military action could fail and harm the president’s already weakened standing with both the American public and the world. Second, that the attack would be viewed as an act of aggression against Muslims, and further destabilize conditions in the Middle East.

Read more: http://socyberty.com/issues/white-ho...#ixzz1LJSAQgdy

If true I think it's just the nasty truth of how re-election always impacts upon what governments do. Early in their terms they're happy to do thinks that are necessary and perhaps unpopular, but not as keen to do so later on in their terms.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Oh great, another idiot.

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You, then, tell us what the difference is, take your time, explain.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Quote Originally Posted by Bob Riebe View Post
Please give me a net link to their deliberate attacks on civilians not connected to a war in progress-- if it is on the net it has to be true..

So you are saying they attacked with the sole purpose to kill those civilians supposedly killed?

] According to a CBS poll, 92% of Panamanian adults supported the U.S. incursion, and 76% wished that U.S. forces had invaded in October during the coup.

Try again you made your claim look silly.

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You are too bright there are you Bob?
The invasion and indiscriminate use of artillery and air strikes on densely populated parts of Cristobal and Colon was to arrest one man on US drug charges..
Tell us Bobby-boy, when was a country invaded and thousands of civilians killed and wounded to arrest one person---in another country--on suspicion of no ativities done by the baddie HERE, but in another country?

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

You, then, tell us what the difference is, take your time, explain.

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Some were celebrating the murder of innocent civilians, the others responding to the death of the most wanted man in the western world.

(why am i supporting the American right-wing here? :s )

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

You are too bright there are you Bob?
The invasion and indiscriminate use of artillery and air strikes on densely populated parts of Cristobal and Colon was to arrest one man on US drug charges..
Tell us Bobby-boy, when was a country invaded and thousands of civilians killed and wounded to arrest one person---in another country--on suspicion of no ativities done by the baddie HERE, but in another country?

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Were you there?

I was.

Shut up!!!

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Originally Posted by henners88

Get a grip people.

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TIREs might helpt with that :)

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Originally Posted by Dave B

Because by killing him we risk sinking to his level. We're better than that, supposedly.

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True. I read that they killed the woman Osama was hiding behind and wounded his wife, and Osama didn't even fire a shot. Maybe he wasn't even armed.

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

I don't think Bob is that naive! :p

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I do. Americans don't give a damn about Europe.

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Originally Posted by Eki

True. I read that they killed the woman Osama was hiding behind and wounded his wife, and Osama didn't even fire a shot. Maybe he wasn't even armed.

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So what?
Maybe they should have sprayed him with bacon fat- then he might of ended up like the Wicked Witch of the West-- "I'm melting-mellllting-oooooohh...."

I really don't understand how people find it strange that Americans openly celebrate the death of a person who was considered their archenemy. People are like that, it's not good but that's the human race. If you look at different nations and the events they celebrate, you soon find that many of those are at least indirectly related to killing.

I mean we Finns, for example, celebrate our independence day on December 6th and honour our veterans who helped us to maintain our independence in the wars against Russia. And what did they do? Killed about 350 000 Russian soldiers.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

So what?
Maybe they should have sprayed him with bacon fat- then he might of ended up like the Wicked Witch of the West-- "I'm melting-mellllting-oooooohh...."

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Or they could have arrested him alive.

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Originally Posted by Eki

True. I read that they killed the woman Osama was hiding behind and wounded his wife, and Osama didn't even fire a shot. Maybe he wasn't even armed.

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True dat. From the White House briefing:

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Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden was not armed when U.S. special forces stormed his compound in Pakistan but he did resist before he was shot, White House spokesman Jay Carney said on Tuesday.

Carney said bin Laden's wife "rushed the U.S. assaulter" and was shot in the leg but not killed, contrary to what a White House official said on Monday.

Carney declined to offer further details on bin Laden's behavior during the raid. Resistance did not require a firearm, he said.

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Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/...eath-aftermath

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Originally Posted by DexDexter

I really don't understand how people find it strange that Americans openly celebrate the death of a person who was considered their archenemy. People are like that, it's not good but that's the human race. If you look at different nations and the events they celebrate, you soon find that many of those are at least indirectly related to killing.

I mean we Finns, for example, celebrate our independence day on December 6th and honour our veterans who helped us to maintain our independence in the wars against Russia. And what did they do? Killed about 350 000 Russian soldiers.

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Well, our Independence day celebrations look like this:

http://img.mtv3.fi/mn_kuvat/mtv3/mat...maa/597985.jpg
http://pohjois-karjalansotaorvot.fi/...4-2010-031.jpg
http://suomenkuvalehti.fi/s/mediagal.../wj021052v.jpg

not like this:

http://www.supercars.net/pitlane/pic...5/3368460d.jpg

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Originally Posted by Eki

Well, our Independence day celebrations look like this:

http://img.mtv3.fi/mn_kuvat/mtv3/mat...maa/597985.jpg
http://pohjois-karjalansotaorvot.fi/...4-2010-031.jpg

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We commemorate our fallen brothers every Memorial Day, in a similar manner.
What is your point troll boy?