Kubica's replacement... (It's Heidfeld!)

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Originally Posted by Roamy

well thank god I am not paying you 10mil to drive. It just shows you the disrespect by the current crop of drivers. And yes probably a handful of them are not competent enough to walk out their front door. So you want all the freedom and all the money too. Well a Pig gets fatter and a Hog gets slaughtered. Ole Kub may never even make it back to F1 and when he does he may be driving for HRT

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Please say what's disrespectful about it. His employer knew and was perfectly happy, just as Red Bull, for example, has been perfectly happy for its drivers to fly back-seat in aerobatic displays for publicity purposes. Pretty dangerous, wouldn't you think?

Would you say that Jim Clark was disrespectful to Lotus for wanting to drive in formulae other than F1, carrying with it the risk of injury? Or Mario Andretti, for keeping up a punishing schedule of races for different teams the world over, carrying with it the risk of industry? Or Vic Elford for racing for Cooper in F1 in 1968, when his main employment was with Porsche as a rally and racing driver, carrying with it the risk of injury? By your reckoning, drivers of eras past were far more disrespectful than their counterparts today, who might occasionally compete in other formulae, but hardly ever.

I would hope teams would have a clause in there contract saying if you injure yourself doing another dangerous sport then you do not get paid or get a small percentage of your salary until fit to race again. So you can do it if you like but it's your risk physically aswell as financially.
It also seems that it's only Canadians clamouring for a return of JV, you need to get yourself a new younger driver to follow not keep trying to resurrect a career that's well finished in F1. Are there no decent young Canadian drivers ? Heidfeld would beat JV without having to break sweat in fact JV would be a match for Badoer these days. you need to let go !

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Originally Posted by foxystoat

I would hope teams would have a clause in there contract saying if you injure yourself doing another dangerous sport then you do not get paid or get a small percentage of your salary until fit to race again. So you can do it if you like but it's your risk physically aswell as financially.

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I doubt this would work in terms of employment law. There is no way such a thing could only be applied to F1 drivers.

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Originally Posted by foxystoat

It also seems that it's only Canadians clamouring for a return of JV, you need to get yourself a new younger driver to follow not keep trying to resurrect a career that's well finished in F1. Are there no decent young Canadian drivers ? Heidfeld would beat JV without having to break sweat in fact JV would be a match for Badoer these days. you need to let go !

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I agree with you there — it's rather ridiculous. Rather like us Brits constantly going on about how we'd like to see Damon Hill or Coulthard making a comeback.

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Originally Posted by Roamy

well thank god I am not paying you 10mil to drive.

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Yeah well, Renault was happy to pay RK 10 mil (or whatever) to drive in F1 and still do stuff on the side, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if they actually helped him pay for the rally drive. So, what's the deal, really? That you wouldn't have made the same decision if you were team manager? That's your opinion, it doesn't make RK disrespectful by any means.

We obviously don't share the view on money so that's pretty much a pointless discussion that I won't get deeper into, but I just can't understand how RK would have wronged the team when he obviously had their support.

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Originally Posted by Mr Alcatraz

And how would you pay your bills and feed your family Laddie?
Still living at home are we? :confused: :s mokin:


http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...yHJF8H6F2Pg1pQ

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you should change your name to Dick Head :p

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Originally Posted by Roamy

well thank god I am not paying you 10mil to drive. It just shows you the disrespect by the current crop of drivers. And yes probably a handful of them are not competent enough to walk out their front door. So you want all the freedom and all the money too. Well a Pig gets fatter and a Hog gets slaughtered. Ole Kub may never even make it back to F1 and when he does he may be driving for HRT

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You're assuming that the team had no idea Kubica was going to rally and was unable to control it. I don't think that is the case however, and the freedom to pursue risky non-F1 activities (or lack of it) would have been part of his contract.

Some teams are notoriously strict on what their drivers and other key team members are and aren't allowed to do such as McLaren. I know for a fact that one of the key inducements Red Bull offered to Newey involved giving him the option to take key weekends off to allow him to race at club level with McLaren having refused to let him do that. Kimi had to get special dispensation from Ferrari to go rallying when he was still racing for them too. Renault would have signed Kubica on knowing that he wanted to go rallying over winter, they knew what they were doing when they signed him.

There is no disrespect involved if its all done with mutual consent, and that was exactly the case between Renault and Kubica.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I would not prevent any of my drivers from doing anything they want to in the off-season

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Bingo.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Bingo.

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Nor, indeed, during the season, I should add.

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Originally Posted by Roamy

Robert has shown arrogance and disrespect for the team who is paying him a ton of money.

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Hold on a sec here! It was with consent from his employer that Robert went rallying. The point I was trying to make, and which Baggy has elaborated on, is that where there is a risk, some mitigation of how that risk might affect you if something happens needs to be factored in.

My viewpoint is - fine, do extreme ironing off a snow capped mountain if you like, - but don't do it any time near the start or during the season, just in case you wake up in a foreign hospital with an ironing board up your Harris......

To me, it's common totty.

If anyone is to blame perhaps it be the rally organizers? That road looked far too narrow and dangerous to race on... That armco is designed to stop SLOW moving vehicles from falling off the cliff... Then again I guess most rallies are held on extremely dangerous roads... I do believe the Rally world needs to up their game in the safety department, because it sure seems that they just race whereever they want with little regard to driver and fan safety. Just like in the old F1 days, wrecklessness brings death / serious injury often.

I am sure Robert now regrets rallying, and he would be a smart man to never set foot in a rally car again, it's just too dangerous when you are hardly making any money (rallying) and there are plenty of other safer ways to get an adrenaline rush.

Unfortunately by the sounds of the severity of his injuries, it's highly likely he'll never race F1 again. The whole right side of his body from his foot leg arm hand were severely mangled. So lucky to be alive, just as he was lucky to be alive from that horrific crash in montreal..

I think the main part of the problem with rallying is there are far too many turns to memorize and even if your codriver reads perfect notes, on extremely dangerous narrow roads just an extremely tiny mistake means catastophe, even worse than racing F1 in Monaco. Just how many deaths and serious injuries have their been in rallying around the world since 1994?!

Anyways, I am rambling, I guess what makes the most sense is Heidfeld #1 and Petrov #2. I think it would be cool to see just how well Bruno could do though. I mean hell he has A LOT to live up to and he knows it. At HRT I think he simply lacked the passion to push the limits because the car was a joke, slower than even GP2 cars!!!! But it is true that Heidfeld is a supremely solid driver and just maybe he could get his first F1 win and who knows really, maybe make a big impact.

Very sad for Robert but also very much looking forward to this F1 season. :) Can't wait to see Robert in the paddock watching the races, cus I know he is a big fan of racing even when he is not racing, I wonder which race that will be? :) Maybe most imporantly for Roberts state of mind is that his codriver came away unscathed. That must bring so much relief to him. Man it takes some huge balls to be a rally codriver just sitting there at the mercy of the driver.

Oh one more thing, would be very interesting to know about the other teams and their driver contracts and what they will let their drivers do and not do. Surely a rally such as this would be off limits for the Ferrari and McLaren guys? I know they do some skiing but it's only for marketing (right?) and I believe they just go on a very easy slope and ski slowly?

If Renualt cant develop th car over the season, and I can´t see two rookie drivers do this, then they will sink to the lower midfield. This will mean little money from Bernie and less or nothing from the spónsors next year. Renulat are in despair right now.

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"The first one driving will at the moment be our first test driver," Boullier was quoted as saying by IVG.it. "In the meantime, we will look for Kubica's substitute: the names considered are Senna, Liuzzi and Heidfeld.

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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/89342

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Originally Posted by Stuartf12007

you should change your name to Dick Head :p

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Whatever Scro? :p :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0O7_...9CC89FC1DA80F1

Later Dukie :wave: :s mokin:

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Originally Posted by keysersoze

Apparently, you haven't heard some well-documented news: Kubica did not help Petrov much, if at all, during the season, and Vitaly had to make do with his own talent and feedback to his engineers. If the cliche is true and you are only as good as your last race, then VP is doing remarkably well--he out-qualified Robert in Abu Dhabi. In the race, he ran in front, but the SC period "invited" the team to split their strategy. Petrov subsequently pitted and was put behind Kubica.

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So, if VP is such a good driver how come Renault had strong doubts about him and hired him a the very last minute and with conditions? I guess because the Renault crew know less than you, right?

How come VP was complaining about how RK was not sharing anything with him? And what makes him such a good driver all of the sudden? The last race last year for parking his car in front of FA?

The dude has a whole a lot to learn especially because this car is not the car he drove last year and Renault needs someone with a lot of experience. And in fact, if last year they had hired an experienced driver rather than him, right Renault would wonder who is going to develop the car this year. And no, Petrov cannot do it.

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Originally Posted by Roamy

Jv has the best track record of all the available drivers - what is sooooo hard about this decision ?????

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Well, as much as I like hime he might be just a little out of touch. They need a vet who is still in the loop.

well ok I will go with what you guys are saying - If he had permission then Renault is dumber than I can imagine. Again I may be wrong but I don't think "the old man" would have put up with any of this sh!t and further more I think it make renault look pretty stupid. They think Robert has the talent to win a WDC and they let him throw it away on a freaking rally car. So I guess I am calling Eric a dumb ass, and Robert should know better especially if he is managed by Flavio

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Originally Posted by mstillhere

Well, as much as I like hime he might be just a little out of touch. They need a vet who is still in the loop.

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The need a vet with a winning track record.. I figure JV would be as good as MS and I would suspect this forum will think MS is better that Nick

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Originally Posted by Kevincal

If anyone is to blame perhaps it be the rally organizers? That road looked far too narrow and dangerous to race on... That armco is designed to stop SLOW moving vehicles from falling off the cliff... Then again I guess most rallies are held on extremely dangerous roads... I do believe the Rally world needs to up their game in the safety department, because it sure seems that they just race whereever they want with little regard to driver and fan safety. Just like in the old F1 days, wrecklessness brings death / serious injury often.

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Rallying has taken significant steps forward in recent yrs and obviously care about driver and spectator safety - clearly you have little understanding of the sport and where it was at previously when competitors severely injuring themselves was common place. The last significant loss of life on a wrc event was Michael Park when Martin crashed in the 2005 Rally of GB. But hey i'm not going to feed the trolls.

How many people who sit here now w/ 20:20 hindsight were complaining this vocally when it was announced RK was going to enter this rally? Or any of the previous rallies he has competed in over the last 24mths?

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Originally Posted by Roamy

The need a vet with a winning track record.. I figure JV would be as good as MS and I would suspect this forum will think MS is better that Nick

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On that basis then I figure they need Damon Hill as he has a winning track record & would be as good as JV who according to you would be as good as MS.
Forget Villeneuve he would be a roundabout get with the times & as the Renault boss has pointed out it's between Heidfeld,Senna & Liuzzi I bet they never gave JV a second thought.
Coulthard would make more sense than JV as he is not so long out the car & no one is wanting him back & he has a winning track record.Or how about Alesi ,Herbert ?
For me out of the 3 in the frame it has to be Heidfeld.

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Originally Posted by mstillhere

The last race last year for parking his car in front of FA?.

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What? He was racing and you expect him to let the guy behind through? Ever heard of competition. I rather suspect the fact is that FA could not get by due the characteristics of the track, and the different strengths/weaknesses of the Ferrari compared to the Renault.

http://www.f1.co.uk/read-news/1146/r...go-back-to-f1/

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Kimi Raikkonen is free to pull out of his 2011 World Rally Championship contract and return to F1 if he wants too.

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Originally Posted by Roamy

The need a vet with a winning track record.. I figure JV would be as good as MS and I would suspect this forum will think MS is better that Nick

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This is the funniest post for a while. :D

I see the Fun Police have been out in force recently. I cant believe people are even suggesting that drivers shouldnt be aloud to drive fast at Goodwood, complete nonsense. Almost as pathetic as the calls to hire JV, who was mediocer in 2006 for BMWSauber, and the last time he drove a car that was anywhere near F1 level was the Peugeot 908 in 2008, and he was the slowest of Pugs 9 drivers (which included Zonta, Klien, Wurze, Montagny, Bourdais and Sarrazin, all ex F1 drivers who would be a better bet today than JV).

I hope they encourage Kimi to return but he seems quite happy with Rally at the moment. Mind you, a Team where nobody expects and a Team mate that's a walk over is not a bad platform for a return.

Of the other 3, Nick is safe but boring, Toni a gamble and Senna will make Petrov look good.

Renault have no plan B at the moment that makes sense. They need Kimi.

As for JV, get real.

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

I see the Fun Police have been out in force recently.

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And we can also ban on safety grounds the RoC, using Paddock Bikes, visiting the Gym, sexual positions other than woman on top and no drinkies incase they become Alcholics. In fact, no food either in case of food poisoning.

What do you think. That should maintain them at the peak for driving a F1 car.

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Originally Posted by skc

And we can also ban on safety grounds the RoC.

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Why, that's in the off season as far as F1 is concerned isn't it?. If drivers were not an expensive commodity as in pre-60's, then let them do what they want, but when you pay them gazillions, and have no credible plan B to placate the money your sponsors are putting up should your No1 driver get injured, then you can see the rationale..........

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Originally Posted by skc

What do you think. That should maintain them at the peak for driving a F1 car.

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Also, the amount of fitness routines, weights hung from the neck, simulators etc drivers in the 21st century are more prepared than they ever were by tearing around in a Lotus Cortina or shagging endless grid girls with an orange in yer gob and a french fry up each nostril......... ;)

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Originally Posted by Sleeper

I see the Fun Police have been out in force recently. I cant believe people are even suggesting that drivers shouldnt be aloud to drive fast at Goodwood, complete nonsense. Almost as pathetic as the calls to hire JV, who was mediocer in 2006 for BMWSauber, and the last time he drove a car that was anywhere near F1 level was the Peugeot 908 in 2008, and he was the slowest of Pugs 9 drivers (which included Zonta, Klien, Wurze, Montagny, Bourdais and Sarrazin, all ex F1 drivers who would be a better bet today than JV).

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This needs quoting for the truth...JV has nothing to suggest he's worthy of an F1 seat, let alone one with a decent team. I applaud the Canucks for their loyalty but it's time to remove those rose tinted specs and admit that JV is just yesterday's man.

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Originally Posted by skc

I hope they encourage Kimi to return but he seems quite happy with Rally at the moment. Mind you, a Team where nobody expects and a Team mate that's a walk over is not a bad platform for a return.

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Massive gamble for Kimi, though. If he came back and was beaten by Petrov his reputation would be massively dented, if not destroyed. Don't laugh: most of us thought that Schumacher would make mincemeat of Rosberg and look how that ended.

It'll be Senna for the first few races, then likely Heidfeld. No-brainer.

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As for JV, get real.

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I almost wish someone would employ him just so we can get this over with. Every year there's a rumour linking him to some team or other (last year it was even a non-existent make-believe team) with a handful of fantastists claiming he'd blow the opposition away - forgetting how utterly embarrassing he was on his last comeback in 2004, what was it, two P10s and a P11?

Go on Eric, stick the old boy in your Renault so we can all have a laugh! :D

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Originally Posted by Dave B

Go on Eric, stick the old boy in your Renault so we can all have a laugh! :D

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well i think we should have equal opportunity laughs - We have MS back why not JV then we can all laugh together.

I am thinking Kimi will get the seat and if he does well Robert will not make it back

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Originally Posted by Dave B

Massive gamble for Kimi, though. If he came back and was beaten by Petrov his reputation would be massively dented, if not destroyed. Don't laugh: most of us thought that Schumacher would make mincemeat of Rosberg and look how that ended.

It'll be Senna for the first few races, then likely Heidfeld. No-brainer.


I almost wish someone would employ him just so we can get this over with. Every year there's a rumour linking him to some team or other (last year it was even a non-existent make-believe team) with a handful of fantastists claiming he'd blow the opposition away - forgetting how utterly embarrassing he was on his last comeback in 2004, what was it, two P10s and a P11?

Go on Eric, stick the old boy in your Renault so we can all have a laugh! :D

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So , don't laugh about Vitaly beating Kimi ?
Yeah , right , Dave .

I don't think Kimi would be all that worried about it .

Michael is getting up to speed now , and a guy who's younger , and has beaten him before , is ready to go .

At least you call me a "fantastist" , instead of a fanatic . That must mean you really are chuffed with it , as it sounds like I am a follower of a great idea .

So , you're right .
Go on , Eric , stick Jacques in your car .

What have you got to lose ?

Of course , only do it if you want a big budget , and lots of press lines , the backing of North America , and a hungry WDC driving on a performance based contract.

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Originally Posted by skc

I hope they encourage Kimi to return...They need Kimi.

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But why? Kimi's lack of commitment/interest has been evident at times, as has his blinding, speed but it's up to him which you get.

Kimi's 'go/do things his own way' attitude is all fine and admirable if things are working well, but if they're not he does not have the ability or apparently interest in working with the team to turn things around. That's great if you can afford to be like that (and Kimi most certainly can on his earnings) but I don't see him being the kind of driver a team will unite around in the kind of circumstances we're seeing at Renault.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Kimi's 'go/do things his own way' attitude is all fine and admirable if things are working well, but if they're not he does not have the ability or apparently interest in working with the team to turn things around. That's

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Yeah right.. Just like we saw in the 2009 season!

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

But why? Kimi's lack of commitment/interest has been evident at times, as has his blinding, speed but it's up to him which you get.

Kimi's 'go/do things his own way' attitude is all fine and admirable if things are working well, but if they're not he does not have the ability or apparently interest in working with the team to turn things around. That's great if you can afford to be like that (and Kimi most certainly can on his earnings) but I don't see him being the kind of driver a team will unite around in the kind of circumstances we're seeing at Renault.

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That's the impression people have which is based on his years at Ferrari, but one has to remember that much of the lazy, uninterested stuff originates from either the Italian or Spanish press or from people who do not understand him. I'd say the truth about Kimi's laziness is still out there.

I don't think Kimi is interested in driving for Renault, it's a midfield team with a limited budget and one paydriver. Not something that will persuade a WDC to come out of retirement. Many people seem to fancy the idea, though.

Lopez says :
"There are drivers who have had good races, for example Nick Heidfeld. We all know that Nick is rather good, but we don't know what level he is in now, we don't know how he does with our car. Same goes for Vitantonio Liuzzi, same goes - I don't know for Bruno Senna, who last year was in a team with a car that could do nothing."
The Spanish press has PDLR as having been contacted . I don't think he has much chance , but he does have Pirelli experience .
And , Kimi is still rallying , with team ownership , so he seems to be having fun where he is .


If they want experience in the seat , and that's what they've said , they need Jacques .
With only one test in the books , it is square one for anybody .
They know his set-ups , and there's likely still a seat in the back room somewhere .

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Originally Posted by DexDexter

That's the impression people have which is based on his years at Ferrari, but one has to remember that much of the lazy, uninterested stuff originates from either the Italian or Spanish press or from people who do not understand him. I'd say the truth about Kimi's laziness is still out there.

I don't think Kimi is interested in driving for Renault, it's a midfield team with a limited budget and one paydriver. Not something that will persuade a WDC to come out of retirement. Many people seem to fancy the idea, though.

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I think Renault need a faster driver than they have at the moment and I can't see so many possibilities. I'm sure it would be difficult get Kimi to Renault, but (maybe?) not impossibly, if Lotus Renault want and do it a right way.. $$$
The car looks fast this year, so why don't give Kimi a chance to test it..

if they can test a handful of drivers in last years car then that would be the answer

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

If they want experience in the seat , and that's what they've said , they need Jacques .

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If Renault don't know what level Heidfeld is after his recent experience in F1 and therefore sound doubtful of signing him then JV has no chance of even being considered.

I'm a fan of Jacques. I loved watching him race and I admired him for taking a punt on BAR but his F1 days are long gone IMHO.

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Originally Posted by gm99

While I don't see Kimi driving for Renault, there's one szenario I could imagine:

Kimi gets the Red Bull Racing seat alongside Vettel, thus keeping his Red Bull sponsorship.

RBR lend Webber, who they are not entirely happy with anyway, to their engine-supplier Renault.

That would give Renault the best available driver, Webber a number-one-drive in a competitive team, RBR a driver unlikely to complain about his team-mate being given preference (and an excellent marketing tool - vodka Red Bull anyone?) and Kimi a chance to get back to F1 without severing the ties with Red Bull.

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is ;)

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Good Sense, Also consider a Massa move if he is so inclined

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Originally Posted by RS

Boullier says the options are Senna, Liuzzi, Heidfeld. If those are the options, then I can't see a reason to choose the other two over Heidfeld. He is the one with the most experience and probably the most speed.

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I think that was said before he knew that Kubica is probably out for the year...and maybe longer.
Better to get a proer driver to fill that seat and score some crucial points than employing a patchwork driver to simply fill that 2nd seat. No Senna, No Heidfeld, maybe Grosjean, but I'd deal for Webber, or Hulkenberg, or even kilen and digrassi.

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Originally Posted by skc

I hope they encourage Kimi to return but he seems quite happy with Rally at the moment. Mind you, a Team where nobody expects and a Team mate that's a walk over is not a bad platform for a return.

Of the other 3, Nick is safe but boring, Toni a gamble and Senna will make Petrov look good.

Renault have no plan B at the moment that makes sense. They need Kimi.

As for JV, get real.

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yep.

I do like JV but I'm not sure he's got any juice left

Ha look at the losers renault is putting in the car! well I am obviously rooting for alonso so this just means renault will not be a player in the championship.