Team orders at Ferrari

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Originally Posted by aki13

One voice singing in the darkness. :eek:

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That's an Alonso fan for sure! ;)

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Originally Posted by aki13

Interesting

Martin Brundle just made the point and I think someone here made earlier, why is the Stewards inquiry starting now, if its worthy of investigation why didn't a message come up with 15 laps to go "Incident will be investigated after the race"

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Maybe Williams complained, good for them, I can't see any other team doing it.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Maybe Williams complained, good for them, I can't see any other team doing it.

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AFAIK the stewards can investigate without receiving a protest from a rival team. They rarely do, of course, but that's another matter...

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

Indeed. Conserve fuel, look after your brakes, change your engine mapping... any of those would have at least disguised the order. Ferrari added insult to injury by treating everybody like idiots.

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Its like they're thinking "Its ok, we're FERRARI, the darlings of the sport, the fans and the media will believe anything we say"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McAeQ...eature=related

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Originally Posted by UltimateDanGTR

poor old Massa, Fernando's win this isn't.

I hope the stewards do the right thing and DQ Alonso, and IMO NOT Massa-who was only following 'orders' and obeying his employers.

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Riiight :dozey:

DQ Alonso who was only following 'orders' and obeying his employers ?

At most penalise Ferrari for being donkeys.

And Ferrari should penalise Smedley for making it blatant :devil:

Wow, five pages already? I guess I am very late to the party.

I'll be short and to the point - it was badly disguised team orders and since they are banned I believe a penalty is in order.

Whether the team order ban should be removed is a very different subject.

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Originally Posted by aki13

One voice singing in the darkness. :eek:

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Whatever bro :s ailor: :p
The rest of the field should be worried about the fact that Ferraris lapped all the way up to p7, and finished almost 1/2 minute ahead of the McLarens! :arrows:

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Originally Posted by ioan

:down: :down: :down: Ferrari, Alonso and dare I say Santander!
:down: :up: Smedley and Massa for making the team orders so obvious but still bending over.

I'll never support these Italian cheap-shots again.

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Do you think, it was better in Schumachers time at Ferrari?

But you are right, it's B*** S***....

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Originally Posted by Tazio

Whatever bro :s ailor: :p
The rest of the field should be worried about the fact that Ferraris lapped all the way up to p7, and finished almost 1/2 minute ahead of the McLarens! :arrows:

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Yet still they could not totally shake off Sebastian Vettel

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Originally Posted by Tazio

Whatever bro :s ailor: :p
The rest of the field should be worried about the fact that Ferraris lapped all the way up to p7, and finished almost 1/2 minute ahead of the McLarens! :arrows:

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If anything that makes it worse. Ferrari owned this weekend, they were quick from Friday morning onwards and clearly had this win in the bag from the second corner of the first lap. They didn't need to resort to such dirty tactics to net a 1 - 2.

BBC F1 Forum: Alonso and Massa both called in to face the stewards

BBC reporting that Ferrari team management have left the stewards' office, while the drivers and Rob Smedley have just gone in.

Edit: snap! :p

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Originally Posted by jas123f1

Do you think, it was better in Schumachers time at Ferrari?

But you are right, it's B*** S***....

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We all were flabbergasted and angry when they pulled that move in Austria 2002 and then again later that year in Indianapolis.

They admitted it at the time but back then it was not against the rules.

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Originally Posted by DazzlaF1

The press conference, Alonso's reply to all the questions from the media (from Ted Kravitz, BBC)

"I was faster than Felipe all weekend and I was 2 thousandths off pole, Felipe was'nt"

And Massa

"It was my decision to let Fernando through"

Any bets that Ferrari have told Felipe what to say?

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The worst part is that Felipe keeps saying what Ferrari tell him to say.
What the F man, get yourself some dignity or you will sink in the $h!t with these pigs.

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

BBC reporting that Ferrari team management have left the stewards' office, while the drivers and Rob Smedley have just gone in.

Edit: snap! :p

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I expect they'll be shown their own radio feeds, and then they'll be flummoxed

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

If anything that makes it worse. Ferrari owned this weekend, they were quick from Friday morning onwards and clearly had this win in the bag from the second corner of the first lap. They didn't need to resort to such dirty tactics to net a 1 - 2.

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They managed to turn their best race of the year into a complete disgrace, I wonder how can they be so stupid?!

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Originally Posted by DazzlaF1

Yet still they could not totally shake off Sebastian Vettel

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A very good point:
If the Ferrari results stand (and yes I think the pass was dubious) it means they put a dent in the team that they were furthest behind. With major upgrades coming for Spa, this result was massive for the wcc.

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Originally Posted by jas123f1

Do you think, it was better in Schumachers time at Ferrari?

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Back then it wasn't illegal.
Worst part today is that they did this openly with everything in the air so that we could all hear it and they take us for idiots afterward saying it wasn't team orders.

BBC: Alonso leaves the stewards room with a big smile on his face, Felipe leaves alone looking glum

Alonso apparently happy coming out of the stewards' office.

after austria 2002 and singapore 2008 , this has to be the biggest farce that i've seen

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Originally Posted by DazzlaF1

BBC: Alonso leaves the stewards room with a big smile on his face, Felipe leaves alone looking glum

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Shameful because they all decided on what to say to the stewards so their stories matched. Total BS.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Back then it wasn't illegal.
Worst part today is that they did this openly with everything in the air so that we could all hear it and they take us for idiots afterward saying it wasn't team orders.

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Doesn't matter, as a fan that's what first made me dislike Ferrari back in 2002. This is a sport, run for the fans, and the vast majority are furious with what Ferrari have done. Whether they manage to wriggle out of this or not, they've lost a lot more support today.

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

Indeed. Conserve fuel, look after your brakes, change your engine mapping... any of those would have at least disguised the order. Ferrari added insult to injury by treating everybody like idiots.

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I have to say that Smedley did save a bit of his integrity in my eyes by making things so obvious in his radio messages.

I have to say he deserves a good spanking from Luca :p

Press conference...

Q: Why did Rob Smedley apologise to Massa?

Domenicalli: It was not an apology like that, he was giving the information to Massa. We didn't make so clearly, we just gave the information to the driver.

I paraphrase, but you get the idea. He's covering.

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Originally Posted by ioan

I have to say that Smedley did save a bit of his integrity in my eyes by making things so obvious in his radio messages.

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Smedley is arguably the man in the most difficult position, he gave the "coded" messages to Massa and in his conversations with him he seemed genuinely upset. Could it have been Domenicali (or even di Montezemolo) giving orders to Smedley to pass on to Massa, taking advantage of this special relationship they have.

Prediction:
In Meeting,
Massa falls on sword.
Ferrari cleared.
Massa and Smedley keep their jobs, for a while longer


BTW-I think that Mac has been playing games on Button all year long, but none of the time, could you actually have much if any evidence that it was a team order rule violation....ferrari is so stupid

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Originally Posted by ioan

I have to say that Smedley did save a bit of his integrity in my eyes by making things so obvious in his radio messages.

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Agreed; his days are numbered.

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Originally Posted by markabilly

Prediction:
In Meeting,
Massa falls on sword.
Ferrari cleared.
Massa and Smedley keep their jobs, for a while longer

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Absolutely.

Further prediction: F1 fan ratings plummet overnight.

BBC now saying that the FIA could end up being forced to take Ferrari's word on the events and leave the result to stand.

Cue a furious backlash from all quarters and it would pretty much render Article 39.1 pointless.

If this pass is deemed legal, then that has implications for the battles between Webber & Vettel, and Button & Hamilton. The gloves wil be off. The FIA simply have to act to nip this in the bud.

Alonso is talking a load of balls on TV now.

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Originally Posted by markabilly

BTW-I think that Mac has been playing games on Button all year long, but none of the time, could you actually have much if any evidence that it was a team order rule violation....ferrari is so stupid

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agree on both counts, specially on Ferrari being stupid :laugh:

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Originally Posted by DazzlaF1

BBC now saying that the FIA could end up being forced to take Ferrari's word on the events and leave the result to stand.

Cue a furious backlash from all quarters and it would pretty much render Article 39.1 pointless.

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well, if they simply take what will now be probably Massa's words trying to save his job (along with Smedley's job), that it was solely his decsision

or even some language, of , "oh, english not my first langage, and I mis-understood, they were really just warning me that FA was faster, and dumb me, I just thought by mistake, they meant move over.....and besides those gear shifts are tricky things, yaydayaydada...." :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Mark

Alonso is talking a load of balls on TV now.

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All concerned deserve Oscars for today's performances :dozey:

Complete And Utter S H I T E-----roll On Btcc Proper Racing

Whatever else happens Smedley will be gone from Ferarri at the end of the year if not before.
If Massa goes I do not think Alonso will want (allow) Webber as a teamate or Kubica either. He will want (demand) someone who will obey orders and stay slower than him.

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Originally Posted by ioan

:down: :down: :down: Ferrari, Alonso and dare I say Santander!
:down: :up: Smedley and Massa for making the team orders so obvious but still bending over.

I'll never support these Italian cheap-shots again.

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As a big Michael "Master of Team Orders" Schumacher fan, You don't sound convincing. ;p

This is, for much of the Schumacher era team orders weren't outlawed. Sure they were unpleasant, but until the aftermath of Austria 2002 they were permitted. Alonso whines about "munipulated races" but is quite happy to benefit from Ferrari's munipulation of this one - and that makes him a hypocrite.