So then you agree with me, all those PRACTICE times are irrelavent. Thank you for seeing the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahFan
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So then you agree with me, all those PRACTICE times are irrelavent. Thank you for seeing the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahFan
Then why practice at all....Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
If practice were irrelevant they wouldn't do it....
I understand that there is sandbagging and piecing together laps, working on sectors separately etc. but I have to agree with Ken, I mean SarahFan... Paul had a bunch more slower laps than faster ones... It seems to me you need to piece together a reasonable number of fast practice laps to be able to contend for a good starting position with a strong degree of confidence that you will succeed....
That being said - comparing Paul to Milka is just plain absurd - you aren't gonna get many racing fans to see your point of view if you do silly thing like that!! :p Paul not making the race had a lot more to do with bad luck than Milka not making the race...... - in that sense practice is irrelevant - Milka had no chance of doing better - Paul did and his faster practice laps proved that....
however, at the end of the day neither will be drinking the milk in victory lane..... and really, in the big scheme of things the whole sport is pretty low on the relevance scale - it is just fun.......
Again for those who are not at the track, every day, talking with drivers and engineers (or working with them) I would be careful with some observations made from your living room.
Practice times:
Practice is practice. Comparing times from one team to another is a foolsih game, UNLESS you know what each team's practice stratedgy, how the car is set up is and weather they were running alone or in the draft. It is kind of like going to the gym, and looking at how much weight each person puts up and trying to compare who is the strongest guy. It means nothing, unless you know what they are training for.
Some teams are working on race setup, others on qualifying setup. Also, when the time was posted, was the driver alone, or were they getting a tow? Were they towed by one, two or more cars. Even then, you can have two teams working on race setups, but one team might be looking at half tank runs, while another might be going with full tank runs. Some might be running sticker tires, others scrubbed, etc, etc.
There are times when you run at set speed to check certain things (the Honda engine guy might want you to stay in 5th or 6th gear, to check the soft/hard limiter, etc) the driver might be checking for a wheel vibration to go away, or the wind may have shifted. They might be checking dash warngin lights, or spotter checks, etc.
We actually make notes in our lap times on how many cars were we following and ensure that when we are working on qual set ups, we run alone. We throw out the times where we kow a driver was getting a pull, even our own.
From our notes, Milka's fastest lap came after being passed by a group of four-five cars, so she had a pretty good tow.
If someone is dumb enough to compare Milka to anyone else who did not make the race, remember race control called her in at least four times! Al Jr. was sent down twice to "advise" her twice or more. I think only two other drivers were called in by race control this month, both rookies. Of course, there were times I did not have my radio on so those who were there can chime in.
Let the madness continue.
Lets be perfectly clear.....No one.... Certainly not me is Compairing Paul to milka
Indeed no one has done that merely stated he wasn't quick enough to make the field. That's a fact because he isn't there!
I know Paul himself said he was not working on qualifying setups at that time so what he was doing then had nothing to do with his qualifying effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahFan
And I know it was not me who was second guessing what Barry should have been doing during that session. Look to your own posts, two of them in fact, for that little gem. You won't find a single instance in mine where I am suggesting what the team SHOULD have been doing. But as usual, you want to try to put words in other folks mouths to divert from your own.
Gary
not sure what to tell ya gary..Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
its rather clear Paul rolled off the hauler slow.... then failed to qualify
seems to me there might just be some relevance there
have a nice day
Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahFan
This is pathetic. What does ANY of that have to do with the original question about the time sheet in question and if there was any relevance to Paul being slower than Milka on that day? Now you want to make this into something completely different. Why does that not surprise me? We're done.
Gary
Why so confusing Gary..... It's the very heart of the discussion
Paul was slow off the truck .... And while it was pointed out early on that it was irrellevant ... I like you and most agreed
well he failed to qualify .... I'd suggest that makes that early speed relevant
Clearly you disagree .... But your a super fan so clearly you k ow more
So I just went back and looked at the time sheet in question....
5 of the top 6 qualifiers ran top ten out if the box
no relevance?
No corrolation?
I'd like to add my perspective of the week overall and you can interpret what you want from it. Paul had made it public that they were working on race setups all week. They in fact didn't trim the car out until Friday and it became very clear very fast if you look at the time sheets that they were flirting with disaster. I personally think the team made a GROSS error in time management. I became slightly concerned after he put up the 226 and I read from Hoops speed chart post that it was the ONLY 226 he put up that day. There was nothing consistent about his times. I think 1 other 225 and about 3 224's in a row. Other than that, in race trim, he struggled to crack into the 224's. In my opinion, they sat out too many sessions, and should've at least spent half of day checking the qual set before frickin' Friday. I understand the base setup from the race was fast under the conditions from the week of practice but still, c'mon. I think Barry and somewhat KV screwed the pouch on this one.
I also think that having 3 freakin' hard crashes from their full-timers seriously hampered their entire program. I said that the second EJ cracked the wall. Frankly, All 3 crashes were as a result of the same handling problems that made Paul slow.
Had it not been for the software glitch which hosed both PT and EJ on pole day, PT would be in the show around 15th right now because that timeframe was the most close to the conditions he practiced in for what 2 hours on Friday in qual trim?
So are the timesheets from practice relative? Yes and No. It was irrelavant that he was last or behind Milka on that particular sheet but overall, looking at all the sheets all week, he never put up a sim qual run or even race trim runs with times above 223's. That is pretty relavant!
I think what if PT would've taken that GEICO deal to NH or FAZZT? Good lord they didn't have any issues! KV looks to be about just like AA, unprofessional and overstretched. I hate to say it because I want them to do well, sort of my little underdog team if you will. But hindsight is 20/20 and I like PT is sticking by them...he can make them better. After his run last year, Mario was a contender all the way at the front instead of from 10th. I credit PT's knowledge and experience...lets see what happens at Toronto and Edmonton and hope for some more.
I'm not saying that practice is completely irrelevent. However, as others have said better than I, unless you know what a team is doing, you can't gleam anything from practice times.Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahFan
How can PT being slower than Milka be relevant in one session. Then when he's P2 in another that is not relevant. Can't have it both ways, either it matters or it doesn't. And since PT has said that he was working on race set-ups most of the week, I'd say it doesn't matter.
Now if you want to debate wether or not it was a good idea to be practicing race set-ups all week, it might be a different story.
First off, comparing anything he does to what Milka does is just stupid.
The fact is, the team wasn't ready, they have 3 guys who do not much more than run fast and wreck cars, and they blew the strategy PT needed to get into the field. Case closed. Not making the 500 says volumes about the people running KV racing screwing up....and not anything about PT. Paul isn't afraid to put the pedal down and he knows how to run at Indy. He has proven that more than once.....and he didn't get stupid in the last year...
Just out! Mikey Andretti will be driving the 2-seater DURING the pace laps with Mr. Izod onboard. It is the Brickyard 500. And I just heard that Humpy Wheeler has been hired to restage his famous "invasion of Grenada" just before the race! What a bunch of crappy crap crap! Come on Mr. Bernard, don't let this happen!
a new question(unless already covered, if so sorry), any guesses on attendance this sunday? Everything but football is being hurt by this recession so I am assumimg the 500 will be also(of course we all know what assumption is the mother of). I certainly don't exspect it to be anything like the flight from nascar this year(how about that crowd at dover) still I believe it will be down some. Any other perdictions on this matter. I sure hope I am wrong, will be a great race anyway.
Has there been a reason given yet as to why Foyt IV was replaced by Lazier??
AJ IV apparently came in after a run and said the car as it was set up was undriveable. AJ in his normal calm sensible way supposedly said between cuss words get in and drive the car.
Grandson was then either fired or quit or a bit of both.
Lazier was not as fast but from what I hear told AJ the same thing AJ IV had said about the handling.
I know maybe long-time US-based fans aren't over the moon about all the overseas drivers but i'll be watching the 500 for the first time since Montoya was racing to see how Sato gets on.
Not exactly sure what your problem with that is? They always do something somewhat like this pre-race. Cars with celebrities on the parade laps, fly overs, celebs driving the pace car, etc. So what's the problem?Quote:
Originally Posted by booger
It will be at the back of the field when they take the green flag.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
Let's pass for a moment on the possible risks and rather think about how ABC is going to screw this up. I would not be surprised if they kept following the two seater right until the first cars enter turn1.
As far as butts in the seat it will look the same as last year I guess. The real recession damage is invisible to us, it's the suites and VIPs and ticketpackages that will be scaled back.Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePI2
One thing is for sure though, it will be nothing like Kansas!
I didn't realize that it would be on the track when the green flag waves. THAT is unacceptable. I can't believe that is the case, do you have an article or something. As dumb as many of the decisions around are, that one just seems unbelievable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lousada
seems odd they/it would be on the track when they drop the green......
do they do 3 or 4 pace laps at indy....
I could see them leading the procession of pace cars for a couple laps... then the pace car for the last 1 or 2....
but at the drop of the green?....no
Doesn't F1 have a safety car follow the field on the first lap? At first blush, it seems to me that having the car follow the field isn't such a big issue.
Gary
Yes and it's a modded road car (Merc SLR) - really shouldn't be an issue
And if something dumb happens like a tire failure on the two seater? And Mikey slaps the wall? Anybody remember Roberto G. spinning out on the back straight of the pace lap? Yup, this is really a good idea. Flyovers are great and celebrity parades before the pace lap are fine, but flying up to the back of the field in a 2-seater at 200mph as the green flies is stupid, stupid, stupid. And you can bet ABC will spend more time on the in car of the 2-seater too.
From the press release on indycar.com:Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
Let's hope the twoseater has good spotters. Imagine BB waves of the start and that thing comes hurling down with 200mph towards the back of the field...Quote:
Andretti and Wahlberg will follow four parade cars and lead the official pace car and the 33-car field of IZOD IndyCars on three parade laps. Once the parade cars exit the circuit, the two-seat race car will round the track at nearly 200 mph to catch the field from behind as the field takes the green flag for the most famous race in the world. This historic moment, which marks the first time in modern history that a driver and passenger will join the field of the Indy 500, will be captured live on ABC at noon (ET) on May 30.
What happens when there is a turn 1 pile up as often happens at Indy? That 2 seater will end up right in the middle of it. This is as stupid as it gets.
My only hope is that the wording is a bit off. I could see them being at the head of the field as the official pace lap starts. They sprint away from the field and duck into the pits ahead of the field actually taking the green.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
I really cant imagine its anything else....
That press release doesn't mention the 2-seater taking the green. Sounds to me like it will belt around on the final pace lap from in front of the pace car to the rear of the field, and then (hopefully) pull into the pits as the green falls.
I would imagine that as the 33-car field takes the green flag, the 2-seater will be at the rear of the field and pull into the pits, so that it isn't on track when the race actually starts. Even with Michael Andretti at the wheel, there would be too much risk to do anything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrewmcm
I think that was the young Canadian CART hopeful and then FA driver Andrew Bordin in an NSX at California speedway. I think it was a demonstaration drive and not a pace lap if I remember correctly. It pretty much ended a very promising career. I also thought of that when I read this and I also thought of the convertible that ran into the press stand at Indy coming off the pace lap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starter
No fatalities, thank God.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTNDPmIO4Lw
True, but it takes a lot longer for Formula cars to lap a road course than an Indy car to lap Indy. What if there's a big mess at the end of the field in the first corner. We all know the Andretti's don't look very far down the road. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
http://www.ibj.com/web-story-templat.../article/20203
an interesting tidbit.....
it seems the locals like Randy also....
*while certainly still a long road to travel and sure to be some bumps and scary corners....it sure is nice to see the sport and the 500 headed in the right direction again
OH, WOW, that ought to make everyone turn on their TV sets, along with Jack Nicholson being around, somewhere...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lousada
Now some might say that is really really dumb......and just adds to the circus entertainment atmosphere... but I am more concerned with more important things, as wondering if go daddy will have some even better commercials than my sig...I can hardly wait :dozey:
as to times, I think that is folks turning the wings down for more downforce...and no doubt some, turning down far more than others....fear seems to do that to some, more than others... :eek:
BTW--what day is the race?????
will the race be postponed if it rains?
Goodnight all. I have to be up real early for the race tomorrow. I cant wait to post here later tomorrow when Danica takes the checkered flag!!! :)
I hope everyone enjoys the race.
Guess we won't ever be hearing from you again! Hard to win from 2 laps down by the 125 mile mark.Quote:
Originally Posted by DanicaFan
Not that I'm disagreeing with you about Danica ...Quote:
Originally Posted by TURN3
But wasn't Villinuve down 2 laps at one point. Or maybe he was a lap down twice. Something like that?