The Delta wing must have been designed from a paint brush with the handle on the front and the brush on the back. Brilliant and VERY forward thinking...duh!
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The Delta wing must have been designed from a paint brush with the handle on the front and the brush on the back. Brilliant and VERY forward thinking...duh!
Well, you can't tell me if this thing hits the track at Indy in 2012 with one or two of the other concepts, that the stands would be much fuller then they will be in 2010.
And let's not forget, Delta Wing LLC has stated multiple times that this is simply a concept car. They do not plan on building this car. They want Dallara, Lola, and Swift to built their car. This will allow these three manufacturers to build a car with the concept of the Delta Wing intact, yet they will be able to modify the car in small ways, both ways they deem will give them a better chance on the track, as well as modifications that the IRL would like them to implement.
That's my thought on it as well. It's funny to me how some fans have been saying if this car gets on track in 2012, it will be the end of IndyCar. Keep in mind, these are usually the same naysayers that are regularly saying the series won't answer the bell in 2012 anyway. So honestly, what's the risk? Seems to me, if the IRL continues to decline in attendance and popularity, why in the world would you have the new car spec be one that is a moderate evolution of the current car, which itself has apparently very little interest to the casual viewer? It seems to me that getting back to innovation and strange, possibly unbalanced cars with a lot of engineering work required by the teams, is an infinitely more interesting way to go than sending out 33 updated clones of what we have now. Fine, give them a car design that can be built by multiple manufacturers (which is the core of Delta Wing's premise), a design that inherently is fast, but also may be unstable and imperfect (though still within the current safety requirements). Lets see the teams show up at Indy 2012 with many variations on the Delta Wing chassis and see what they did with it. Isn't that what gets fans to the track? You think fans want to come to an Indy practice session to see 33 identical Dallara's going maybe a quarter of a sec quicker than last year or even with the year before? Not me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic
Can you say that they will?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamoo
Actually they stated that they are planning on building the car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamoo
http://deltawingracing.com/Quote:
“Our goal is to have our first prototype on the track in August,” said Partel. “We look forward to an exciting development project with the Indy Racing League to ensure that all of their requirements are met for DeltaWing to become the next IZOD IndyCar in 2012.”
Curt Cavin interviewed Bowlby earlier tonight on his Trackside radio show in Indianapolis. I liked his answers and attitude about how the "open source" design of the chassis would encourage multiple manufacturers. Its at the beginning of the Feb 11th podcast:
http://www.1070thefan.com/trackside/podcast.aspx
Bowlby laughed off the accusation that the car couldn't steer in hairpins, but didn't go into details why during that interview. I looked around and apparently the Delta will have differential steering, which was banned in F1 and other organizations years ago. I'm not sure of the pros/cons of that kind of steering, but it can allow a radical design like this to turn very well in tight corners. RC cars use this technology to turn on a dime.
Differential steering is the same concept used to steer tanks and other tracked vehicles and even robotics. This implies that the drive (rear) wheels would actually steering the car by spinning at different speeds. But what does that mean for the front wheels. Unless they are driven too isn't there bound to be some side friction involved. Hello, Hoop where are you when we need some calcs done, bud?
Gary
My $10 dollars says there will be more people in attendance between practice and qualifications in 2012 if the Delta Wing car is put on the track then there will be people in the stands 2010 with the current Dallara on the track.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
They stated they are building a prototype, but they have no interest in building a fleet of cars for the IRL. They are building the prototype to prove that it can work, then will work with Dallara, Lola, and Swift and allow them to build the cars for the IRL.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
I beive that is exactly what he said.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
No, they said they will build a car, a single prototype. They have no interest in being the supplier.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Gary
I found an simple explanation of differential steering on youtub. Stick with it to the educational part. The first part could prove interesting at a pre-race show, Haha.
Enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYAw79386WI
I thought Keith Wiggins saying he was supporting the Delta Wing because he "used to work for Bowlby at Lola" interesting.
Bowlby and Ganassi have all their former employees and lackeys lined up with them and their current drivers as well.
They had a chance to really hit a home run with a new design and unfortunately swung and missed BADLY with the folks that matter the most.....the consumer of their product.
A retro front-engined design would at least get many former fans and many current AOW people (because there is a LOT more to AOW then Indy Car Racing) interested. A innovative, evolutionary rear-engined design would at least get some former CART fans and many current fans interested.
This thing alienates ALL parties and doesn't appeal to anyone, from any genre of American Open Wheel Racing. Doesn't appeal to old fans. Doesn't appeal to current fans. And because it doesn't look like a NASCAR car, won't appeal to new fans (because unfortunately NASCAR is racing in this country now).
The youtube video talks about the design of a differential, not differential steering. (Unless I skipped along too far past the motorcycle demo.)
Gary
Love it or hate it, it is CHANGE...and this series hasn't CHANGED really for a decade....
Even the detractors of the D-wing design have to admit that it is not just a simple evolution, but a revolution. Revolutions are not always popular...but lets see how this pans out. I suspect the prototype and actual car if built wont end up quite like this wild idea.
Hoop..we need you ...because maybe you can bring some educated and intelligent thoughts to the table here. Right now....we are just knowing we dont' like the looks of it....
and dont care what it looks like.....I dont love it or hate...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
but if adopted its clearly not an 'open wheel race car'.....and that fundementally changes this sport......
but hey maybe its already a zombie and change is the only option....
but from where I sit.....if it meets a basic set of rules (min/max weight, height, lenght etc) and meets safety standards..... then by all means let someone role it out and run 500 miles with.....maybe get there face on the borg warner...
but just dont stop Sarah from rolling out the Dollar General Dallara and kickin there as s's in it
I was going for a laugh. I really like the idea of somone running on the rear wheels. NOT!Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
Would you guys feel better about the design if the front wheels had a normal seperation sticking out from the tub? I think that is one thing that would help the look. I always liked seeing the suspension moving over the bumps and such.
I kind of agree that the front wheel seperation is a visual oddity and a question mark for most of we gearheads on how it could possibly work at any track other than an oval. In the explanation by Bowlby he wanted to reduce drag caused by the tires. If they were spread to a wider track, drag would increase which would require more power to maintain the same speeds, plus likely decrease fuel economy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamoo
As has been pointed out several times before, the league needs to set its goals first. If they are doing their homework they will ask for input from the fans and auto manufacturers rather than their own staff. Is that likely to happen? I am afraid it won't with the current regime unless the Bull Rider cleans house.
Scott, you need to stop this thing where you act like your opinions represent those of "all" fans. You know what you like, leave it at that. If I was going to speculate a percentage of hardcore Indy fans opinions on the Delta, I'd go 50% against, 25% unsure, 25% like it. But that's speculation, and opinions can change. I'd also bet that casual and younger fans are more likely to go for the Delta design.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty G.
Just remember, this Delta Wing IS NOT the car chosen for the IRL. It is only a concept car. We all shouldnt speak as if it will be on track in 2012, not going to happen. ;)
The IRL isnt dumb enough to choose this hideous monstrosity. :down:
if its only a concept then how in the world do they know it will cost 1/2 as much...Quote:
Originally Posted by DanicaFan
what happens when actually car builders begin construction....and then it needs to be reengineered... and tweaked and tested....and updated and etc etc..
1/2 as much...
I call bullcr@p
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickFalzone
1. And you'd be wrong. Cavin said that his e-mails have been roughly 100 to 1 against it. And those are the hard-core fans (nobody else would bother e-mailing him).
2. Why? Any casual or younger fans are going to check out NASCAR first, second and third, before ever taking a look at whatever Indy Car is dishing out. Plus with the driver lineup, nobody new is going to pay attention anyway, whether they pick the Dallara, Delta Wing, Swift, Novi, March or Jaloppy.
There was one reason and one reason only why all of this "hubub" for the Deltoid Wing.... Barnhart opposes it. And all of those folks from Ganassi to Miller, who want Barnhart out and their "buddy" Cotman in (so they can get their series the way THEY want it) now have a cause to get behind, no matter how ridiculous it is.
This whole deal, is about wrestling control of the sport back to the way it was in the early 90's. Now that TG is gone, its time to pounce.
Just wondering - would this mean that the only people that could be considered as hard-core fans are the ones that email Cavin?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty G.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ykiki
No, it means those that took the time to e-mail Cavin, are most likely hard-core Indy Car fans.
Trackside Online (another place filled with hard-core Indy Car fans) published the feedback they received on the D-Wing. They gave EVERY e-mail they received on the unveiling. The results, were 57 against, 10 for and 12 not sure.
I personally think the Delta Wing Project has massive potential, the lack of wings will lead to more options when racing in the pack on ovals and at close quarters on road courses. It will also create a lot of casual curiosity, unlike the current car that looks like a bloated old F1 reject.
The Dallara concept is unimaginative, Lola havnt even released pictures of thier concept but from the noises emerging from Lola it is apparent that the design isnt terribly adventurous. The Swift design is a bit more adventurous but is still inherantly a conventional concept but done in a very stylised way.
Let it sink in, the Delta Wing is VERY different but the Indycar series needs a big change, otherise the series will spiral into oblivion.
Since when was a penis considered a serious proposal?
Looks like a dildo cruising around the track. Awful!
Once again, you know everything... the rest of us no nothing. Why don't you just tell us all what to think. Oh wait, that is exactly what you do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty G.
I hate to burst your bubble but, Scotty G. you take yourself much to seriously, so much so that the rest of us don't.
Gary
Well at least people will be actually talking about Indycar if the car looks like a giant cock and balls, which is much more than what happens now!Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
It's a stunt. A media freakshow.
Delta Wing Racing isn't a very imaginative name for a company, either.
I know it's a real entity, but it even sounds thrown together hastily.
Then again, this league has much the same symtem from the inception.
I could tell you that.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamoo
I ran a poll at another forum.... and 80% of the fans that voted dont believe that the DW is an open wheel racecar...
and another Poll has 45% of fans that voted saying they would migrate to another form of racing....
sure the DW will still produce some new interest...... but I would think its entirly possible for every new fan coming out to check out the next big thing there will be one less diehard moving on to F1 or superbikes etc
net gain = zero
I think it would at least LOOK a little better without that huge vertical tailfin. It just looks odd. It honestly looks like it's there for nothing more than a place to put a huge car number. Integrate something lower into the rear wheel fairings and maybe increase the sail area of the engine cowling.
Who designed this thing George Jetson?
Just realized what the deltawing reminds me of; the car on the Daytona 500 trophy.
I made something that looks just like that in shop class about 10 years ago. Only my car was powered by a CO^2 canister.Quote:
Originally Posted by gofastandwynn
the new car looks like the batmobile from the tim burton movies :p
an i the only one who feels it gets worse ever time they see it?
Yeah yeah. Harley J Earl is laughing histerically about all this. Could he have imagined the future so well? I don't know, but that trophy caught my attention, too. Can't believe I didn't notice it sooner.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelred5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken
No.
More and more, I almost get the feeling that this whole DW deal was never that serious. I think this deal was more about getting a bunch of owners together in "solidarity" and trying to pressure Indy Car leadership to do things the way they want them done.
This thing was more about ELEMENTS of the sport and of the car, that the owners think are broken and need fixed.
I almost think Bowlby and Chipper made this "car" as ridiculous looking as possible. Maybe to try and scare the sport straight, as they say.
I and most rational people think that BIG changes have to be made, if the sport is to have any future at all. Things have to made SUBSTANTIALLY cheaper. More teams HAVE to be lured. More American drivers HAVE to feel welcome. The cars have to be economically and environmentally smart and have to be relevent with the rest of the car industry.
But this car? No chance the 2012 Indy 500 will have a car that looks like that. Bowlby and Ganassi probably knew that going in. It could look like a car we have used for 35 years. It could look like a car that we used in the 50's and 60's. It won't look like this thing though.
so scotty...
where exactly do you think they can cut costs?
Yea, plus the more and more I see this and think about it it becomes more clear that this car will never happen. It would cause more accidents and require a complete overhaul of the ladder system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken
The sky is falling...the Deltawing is coming.....
Believe me...if this thing actually gets to the point where one exists, then I will get bent of shape...