Luca Badoer Finally Gets Ferrari Drive

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Originally Posted by tamburello

That was in October 08, and I don't recall seeing any details since then, so it would appear that it didn't happen.

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It did happen!!....well the beginnings at least - A tie in to regularly test the top 3 finishers of the Italian F3 championship each year:

Ferrari test Italian F3 trio at Fiorano (Nov 27 2008)
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72265

Ferrari to test Italian F3 drivers again (Apr 22 2009)
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74702

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/116218.jpg

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/116229.jpg

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/116227.jpg

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/116219.jpg

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/116215.jpg

I'd love to see a competitive Italian driver in a Ferrari.

The Italians currently in Formula 1 (Liuzzi, Fisichella, and Trulli) are in the last throes of a Formula 1 career. Some fresh blood can't do much harm.

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Originally Posted by gloomyDAY

I'd love to see a competitive Italian driver in a Ferrari.

The Italians currently in Formula 1 (Liuzzi, Fisichella, and Trulli) are in the last throes of a Formula 1 career. Some fresh blood can't do much harm.

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Rationally, the Ferrari team do not consider nationality.

In my view the three drivers you have mentioned are already beyond their sell by date.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Been out for a light yera, constantly whining, hysterical little girl? So nothing objective to say from you, eh?! And I was thinking we are supposed to asses racing skils. :D

PS: Sato did drive F1 cars in winter testing. ;)

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Too many people become sentimental over drivers. Drivers like Sato and Piquet have shown what they can do - nothing special and mostly disappointing. Not to forget that when they DO do well that they are reaching their limit.

Time to move on and look out for the next driver.

Then there are these bloody drivers that stay and stay and stay, no better than they ever were before and unlikely to improve. There was a good editorial in the Autosport to that effect a couple of weeks ago.

Such a pity we no longer have the authoritative, lucid and caustic view of the late and much missed James Hunt.

He used to take drivers apart that would blame the car for their inadequacies - for example Arnoux when he blamed the handling characteristics of the Ligier turbo - James declared that it was bollocks and if Arnoux was having difficulties he should get out and give another driver a chance.

James you were always the spririt of the party and we love you!!!

As James said, it is always the bores that stay at the party until the very end - and I can think of no more boring people than Barrichello [groan], Trulli [is he actually alive?] and of course Fisichella [whats wrong THIS time Giancarlo!!].

So people, suck up your sentimentality and get with the goddamn program!

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Too many people become sentimental over drivers. Drivers like Sato and Piquet have shown what they can do - nothing special and mostly disappointing. Not to forget that when they DO do well that they are reaching their limit.

Time to move on and look out for the next driver.

Then there are these bloody drivers that stay and stay and stay, no better than they ever were before and unlikely to improve. There was a good editorial in the Autosport to that effect a couple of weeks ago.

Such a pity we no longer have the authoritative, lucid and caustic view of the late and much missed James Hunt.

He used to take drivers apart that would blame the car for their inadequacies - for example Arnoux when he blamed the handling characteristics of the Ligier turbo - James declared that it was bollocks and if Arnoux was having difficulties he should get out and give another driver a chance.

James you were always the spririt of the party and we love you!!!

As James said, it is always the bores that stay at the party until the very end - and I can think of no more boring people than Barrichello [groan], Trulli [is he actually alive?] and of course Fisichella [whats wrong THIS time Giancarlo!!].

So people, suck up your sentimentality and get with the goddamn program!

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Well there's a minute of my life I'm not getting back.

The fact remains that Sato, Bourdais and Piquet are all much better than Luca Badoer.

Do you disagree?

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Originally Posted by Malllen

Well there's a minute of my life I'm not getting back.

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Surely you treasure all these gems of knowledge. Makes me look forward to ioans posts. :(

Saint Devote, I see that you are very consistent in criticizing drivers.

I would like to ask you, which 20 (or next year 26) should make up the grid if most of them aren't good enough, too old, etc?

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Originally Posted by Malllen

Well there's a minute of my life I'm not getting back.

The fact remains that Sato, Bourdais and Piquet are all much better than Luca Badoer.

Do you disagree?

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Actually there are no minutes of your life you receive back.

I do not know that - they all raced years after he did, but that will be resolved in the next few weeks.

Badoer is a selection that makes sense for Ferrari as he does their primary testing and knows the car far better than anyone else available and assisting Raikonnen to try and win at least at Monza is a deserving privilege to race the second Ferrari.

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Originally Posted by jens

Saint Devote, I see that you are very consistent in criticizing drivers.

I would like to ask you, which 20 (or next year 26) should make up the grid if most of them aren't good enough, too old, etc?

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What a lovely question Jens :-]!!!

Actually I do not mean to criticze the drivers - I love the sport too much although sometimes I may get carried away - English is not the most delicate of languages. My comments would probably sound better in French or Arabic!

Hamilton
Kovaleinen
Raikonnen
Alonso
Rosberg
Kubica
Hulkenberg
Alguersuari
Ricciardo
Heidfeld
Webber
Vettel
Button
Glock
Massa
Bianchi
Grosjean
Buemi
Sutil
Senna

For the rest I would select what is left from winners in f3 and GP2 championships as well as drivers such as Jani, Paffett, Carroll and drivers as well as drivers Trulli, Fisichella and Barachello.

My point is not to automatically dismiss drivers just that there ought to be more movement through trying out.

It is not about being bloody minded but striving to place those with the greatest potential in seats.

I realize it is easier said than doen, but I alsorecall the fuss that was raised when Sauber gave Raikonnen his try.

If not for Sauber, Kimi may well have never been known. Teams need to be like Sauber, Minardi and Jordan were.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Teams need to be like Sauber, Minardi and Jordan were.

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You mean signing pay drivers?

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

What a lovely question Jens :-]!!!

Actually I do not mean to criticze the drivers - I love the sport too much although sometimes I may get carried away - English is not the most delicate of languages. My comments would probably sound better in French or Arabic!

Hamilton
Kovaleinen
Raikonnen
Alonso
Rosberg
Kubica
Hulkenberg
Alguersuari
Ricciardo
Heidfeld
Webber
Vettel
Button
Glock
Massa
Bianchi
Grosjean
Buemi
Sutil
Senna

For the rest I would select what is left from winners in f3 and GP2 championships as well as drivers such as Jani, Paffett, Carroll and drivers as well as drivers Trulli, Fisichella and Barachello.

My point is not to automatically dismiss drivers just that there ought to be more movement through trying out.

It is not about being bloody minded but striving to place those with the greatest potential in seats.

I realize it is easier said than doen, but I alsorecall the fuss that was raised when Sauber gave Raikonnen his try.

If not for Sauber, Kimi may well have never been known. Teams need to be like Sauber, Minardi and Jordan were.

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Fair enough, but I can't agree with your view that Trulli, Fisichella and Barrichello are the most "boring" people (and what on earth do you mean by boring?). They have had respectable and interesting careers with their own ups and downs, have at least matched most of their team-mates so far with an exception here or there and surely teams haven't employed them for way over ten years in F1 without a reason. Try to find something positive about them as well.

Several drivers in your proposed list are definetely NOT better than any of those three. And some of them (like Ricciardo) are simply too inexperienced to get thrown into F1 already by 2010.

But it's a usual tendency that usually rookie drivers, who show at least some promise, tend to be overrated... and highly experienced drivers - if they haven't fulfilled the former high hopes for whatever reason - become underrated. Those days, when the likes of Ralf, Fisi, Barri, also Wurz were hailed as future world champions, are well-remembered. Now we have reached another cycle and people think all rookies will be prove to be instantly better... only for many of them to disappoint later on.

You were talking about sentimentality and that's worthless. Well, I personally have respect for highly experienced drivers, with whose career progression I have grown up. Even if they haven't had the most magnificent careers in the world, they deserve more attention than they get, considering that usually youngsters (even if they are worse!) are in the spotlight instead of them. It's actually a bit sad to see those guys reaching a phase, when people say "they are crap and should get out", when I recall the days, when they were the next big things, when everything seemed so different and all the possibilities to have a magnificent career were wide-open.

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Originally Posted by christophulus

I still reckon Gene would've been the more sensible choice, he's had far more recent racing experience (he won the Le Mans 24h a couple of months back), but nonetheless I think Badoer will be solid.

What do Ferrari have to lose, really? Bringing in another F1 driver at short notice would be tricky, at least Badoer knows how the team works and can probably set up the car well. He'll bring the car home in the points and can offer insight for developments, so I say good luck to him :up:

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I'm happy that Badoer has finally got the Ferrari drive he has been in position for for so long. I don't think he will out perform Kimi but I wouldn't rule him out of a points finish if the car doesn't disappoint. I've never considered him a quick driver but who knows what Badoer is like now? Its been 10 years since he has raced an F1 car and its going to be quite a thing to see a driver return after a 10 year lay-off (the biggest gap of this like in history?)

I wish people would stop this moaning. christophulus pointed this out earlier [see quote:] Ferrari and Badoer have nothing to loose right now. They're not in a position to realistically take the challenge for the constructors' title this year. With Massa out of contention for the foreseeable future, the drivers championship has practically slipped through their fingers too. If Badoer does badly, so what? Badoer's career isn't ruined per se. Nothing is resting in his hands, he's just a filler. If he scores points, what a nice surprise for the team. :)

I think people get the impression Luca's been sat on his arse for the past 10 years.

He's been training, doing simulator work, TESTING the car for the last 9 years at least, and there's a good chance that despite his age, he's a better driver than he was when he signed for Ferrari.

It wouldn't surprise me if he has got better as he's been around Schumi, Kimi, Rubens and Massa for the last decade.

I don't think he'll set the world alight but he'll do better than most people expect.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Badoer is a selection that makes sense for Ferrari as he does their primary testing and knows the car far better than anyone else available and assisting Raikonnen to try and win at least at Monza is a deserving privilege to race the second Ferrari.

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Badoer has never tested the F60. Not once.

His appointment is only convenient because Ferrari don't have to go looking... but it doesn't mean he is the best available driver for the job.

Comparitive example: Alex Wurz in 2007.

Badoer will drive the F60 today and tomorrow as part of some kind of a commercial program. He will be limited to 100 kms/day and will have to use the extra hard demo Bridgestone tires.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77721

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Actually there are no minutes of your life you receive back.

I do not know that - they all raced years after he did, but that will be resolved in the next few weeks.

Badoer is a selection that makes sense for Ferrari as he does their primary testing and knows the car far better than anyone else available and assisting Raikonnen to try and win at least at Monza is a deserving privilege to race the second Ferrari.

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What do you get when you cross a Shytesu with a Bulldog? This!!

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Originally Posted by ioan

Badoer will drive the F60 today and tomorrow as part of some kind of a commercial program. He will be limited to 100 kms/day and will have to use the extra hard demo Bridgestone tires.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77721

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Hardly enough miles to really aid him, but nonetheless goes to show you how easy it is to find loopholes in the regulations.

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Originally Posted by Paddy Cummins

Hardly enough miles to really aid him, but nonetheless goes to show you how easy it is to find loopholes in the regulations.

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It might help him understand the steering wheel layout and such other things he could have learned in the simulator, but that's it.

But no other use. Anyway according to some illuminated forum members Luca knows this car better than anybody else even though he'll be driving it today for the first time! ;)

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

What do you get when you cross a Shytesu with a Bulldog? This!!

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You're losing to many minutes of your life Valve.
You'd be better off taking a flight to NZ and doing some skiing! :)

Any time spent in the car will be better than none at all but I agree with ioan that it's going to have no real practical use. The tyres are harder than Vinny Jones and he has to keep to 60mph max.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Any time spent in the car will be better than none at all but I agree with ioan that it's going to have no real practical use. The tyres are harder than Vinny Jones and he has to keep to 60mph max.

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Yes, but that's still quicker than Bourdais could have managed.

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Originally Posted by tamburello

That was in October 08, and I don't recall seeing any details since then, so it would appear that it didn't happen.

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Ferrari's intentions may be good with their "young driver scheme" but they're a little late! The investment the likes of McLaren, Red Bull and Renault have made over the years has produced mixed results but also one or two gems.

Ferrari's focus on a certain Michael Schumacher for a decade may have produced spectacular results, but longer term they have no-one "in development". I suppose Felipe has been their "young driver scheme", but I do wonder why they didn't do more much sooner. For the amount of money they pay Kimi they could have developed a whole grid of drivers :p

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Originally Posted by ioan

It might help him understand the steering wheel layout and such other things he could have learned in the simulator, but that's it.

But no other use. Anyway according to some illuminated forum members Luca knows this car better than anybody else even though he'll be driving it today for the first time! ;)

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i'm glad you posted this little snippet again, and whilst i didn't have any reason to question it before, i thought it was a little odd that Badoer had never ever even sat in the car before, but from http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=46612 (and a similar report on Autosport

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Originally Posted by Luca Badoer

“With testing being so restricted this year,” he explained, “it’s very difficult to step up to the race seat. I drove the F60 at Fiorano just for two filming days, on Monday and Tuesday, but it was good to get into a car that I haven’t driven for several months.”

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which seems to indidcate the contrary to your belief that he's bever driven the car previously.

Interesting find Robinho. Not quite cast iron conclusive evidence but it certainly suggests some mileage somewhere.

i don't doubt he's done bugger all in the car since preseason, and then possibly very little mileage even then, however that is not what "some illuminated forum members" would have us believe ;)

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Originally Posted by Robinho

i'm glad you posted this little snippet again, and whilst i didn't have any reason to question it before, i thought it was a little odd that Badoer had never ever even sat in the car before, but from http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=46612 (and a similar report on Autosport



which seems to indidcate the contrary to your belief that he's bever driven the car previously.

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Well as you can see he first sat in the car this week on Monday and Tuesday.
I fail to see how I was wrong when I said previously that he never drove the car. :confused:

Also you are a bit late.
Posted almost 3 days ago by myself:

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Originally Posted by ioan

Badoer will drive the F60 today and tomorrow as part of some kind of a commercial program. He will be limited to 100 kms/day and will have to use the extra hard demo Bridgestone tires.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77721

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It's on the previous page of this very thread! :D
:wave:

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Originally Posted by Robinho

i don't doubt he's done bugger all in the car since preseason, and then possibly very little mileage even then, however that is not what "some illuminated forum members" would have us believe ;)

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As pointed out in my other post, you're mixing up the time stamps a bit. ;)

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Originally Posted by tamburello

Yes, but that's still quicker than Bourdais could have managed.

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where is the humor in that?

tell you what, Bourdais would be a better option for ferrari than either gene or badoer

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Ferrari's intentions may be good with their "young driver scheme" but they're a little late! The investment the likes of McLaren, Red Bull and Renault have made over the years has produced mixed results but also one or two gems.

Ferrari's focus on a certain Michael Schumacher for a decade may have produced spectacular results, but longer term they have no-one "in development". I suppose Felipe has been their "young driver scheme", but I do wonder why they didn't do more much sooner. For the amount of money they pay Kimi they could have developed a whole grid of drivers :p

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...and the money they paid kimi was well rewarded with an F1 championship right?

I've never been a fan of teams trying to look 6-10 yrs down the future, as an approach to running an F1 team. More so than any sport, F1 is about as real time as it gets in any sport. It's good that macs, RB and BMW have spent money on development programs. but when you have a car and budget like macs or Ferrari, you can pretty much get any driver you want and usually end up with the best. Replacing one top driver with another. Money is better spent developing a superior car and dropping in a top flight driver, than spending money on developing drivers who may or may not drive the car 10 years down the road. This isn't a soccer team, it's F1. Hamilton's rise in mclaren is more of an exception than the norm. Red bull's young driver program is a disaster (party due to self inflicted wounds and dumb decisions)

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Ferrari's intentions may be good with their "young driver scheme" but they're a little late! The investment the likes of McLaren, Red Bull and Renault have made over the years has produced mixed results but also one or two gems.

Ferrari's focus on a certain Michael Schumacher for a decade may have produced spectacular results, but longer term they have no-one "in development". I suppose Felipe has been their "young driver scheme", but I do wonder why they didn't do more much sooner. For the amount of money they pay Kimi they could have developed a whole grid of drivers :p

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You know that money does not produce drivers - in fact with Hamilton being the exception it has been the smaller less well-funded teams that have made the selections.

Alonso had Minardi, Raikonnen had Sauber, Schumacher had Jordan and Senna had Toleman - with Bernie hot in their heels to try and sign him for Brabham much to Piquet's alarm so he managed to put a stop to that.

The best driver finding scheme remains the Elf-Winfield scholarship which produced EIGHT drivers all on the grid at the same time. Alain Prost was the result of the Elf scheme.

If the money required today was neccessary then, and there was no Elf-Winfield program Prost himself said that he could never have moved beyond his karting.

I am happy for Badoer because it always makes me happy when I see people achieve dreams - and being a Ferrari driver in a grand prix regardless of what happens or if he will be driving at Spa, will have made everything worth it for Luca Badoer. Well done :-]

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Originally Posted by truefan72

...and the money they paid kimi was well rewarded with an F1 championship right?

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Not exactly enough.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

You know that money does not produce drivers - in fact with Hamilton being the exception it has been the smaller less well-funded teams that have made the selections.

Alonso had Minardi, Raikonnen had Sauber, Schumacher had Jordan and Senna had Toleman - with Bernie hot in their heels to try and sign him for Brabham much to Piquet's alarm so he managed to put a stop to that.

The best driver finding scheme remains the Elf-Winfield scholarship which produced EIGHT drivers all on the grid at the same time. Alain Prost was the result of the Elf scheme.

If the money required today was neccessary then, and there was no Elf-Winfield program Prost himself said that he could never have moved beyond his karting.

I am happy for Badoer because it always makes me happy when I see people achieve dreams - and being a Ferrari driver in a grand prix regardless of what happens or if he will be driving at Spa, will have made everything worth it for Luca Badoer. Well done :-]

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There is a lot of expectation coming from Ferrari's side with regards to the lack of a proper development scheme that is well funded etc.

That is that Ferrari expects themselves to be the dream job for an F1 driver. They will always believe (and probably rightly so) that they can go and sign any driver they want.

It just comes from being as successful as they have been.

I'll use football as an example. Teams like Chelsea and Liverpool have been accused of neglecting their reserves and their development, but when you can go and buy whoever you want to a certain degree, then developing one or two good players every couple of years is fine for them.

However, if you look at teams like Everton, Middlesbrough, West Ham, Leeds and Crewe, most of the time they bring their youngsters through, and I'd say half of them contribute to their teams for most of their careers, and the other half are sold for decent money.

It's a good business model whether the fans like it or not.

Red Bull especially have put a lot of effort into their scheme over the years, just look at the drivers they have brought through:

Vettel, Speed, Alguersuari, Liuzzi, Klien, Hartley, and a couple of others. Here are 6 drivers who probably wouldn't be in F1 as quickly as they were without RBR, and STR to be fair as well.

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Originally Posted by truefan72

...and the money they paid kimi was well rewarded with an F1 championship right?

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True. There's no right or wrong way. The likes of Ferrari can pay established stars, and do not need to develop their own talent. It's just I think they may benefit from doing so.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

You know that money does not produce drivers - in fact with Hamilton being the exception it has been the smaller less well-funded teams that have made the selections.

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No. Of course money does not produce talent, but it does help it to flourish. Hamilton may be an exception but McLaren made a committment to him many years ago and are seeing the benefits of that, and will probably do so for many years to come.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

The best driver finding scheme remains the Elf-Winfield scholarship which produced EIGHT drivers all on the grid at the same time. Alain Prost was the result of the Elf scheme.

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That was quite a time for French drivers. The likes of Jabouille, Arnoux, Prost, Jarier, Pironi, Laffite, and Tambay were all on the grid in the late 70's.

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Originally Posted by Robinho

i'm glad you posted this little snippet again, and whilst i didn't have any reason to question it before, i thought it was a little odd that Badoer had never ever even sat in the car before, but from http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=46612 (and a similar report on Autosport



which seems to indidcate the contrary to your belief that he's bever driven the car previously.

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As this goes against a few members that are self professed Ferrari experts and "in the know", we can only assume Luca is lying ;)

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

As this goes against a few members that are self professed Ferrari experts and "in the know", we can only assume Luca is lying ;)

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http://www.forumula1.net/2008/f1/f1-...i-in-portimao/

That was Badoers last test for Ferrari, in an F2008 muletta to 2009 regulations.

So perhaps you don't look so smart now, cock?

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Originally Posted by tamburello

http://www.forumula1.net/2008/f1/f1-...i-in-portimao/

That was Badoers last test for Ferrari, in an F2008 muletta to 2009 regulations.

So perhaps you don't look so smart now, cock?

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That's "cock" as in -

2. A term of address, usually affectionate. E.g."Right cock, that'll be 46 pence please. Would you like it in a bag?"

http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/c.htm

Not as in the 1st definition!

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Originally Posted by tamburello

That's "cock" as in -

2. A term of address, usually affectionate. E.g."Right cock, that'll be 46 pence please. Would you like it in a bag?"

http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/c.htm

Not as in the 1st definition!

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Not all of us here are native speakers so I'm sure some of us know only the 1st definition :)

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Originally Posted by DexDexter

Not all of us here are native speakers so I'm sure some of us know only the 1st definition :)

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:D

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Originally Posted by ioan

Well as you can see he first sat in the car this week on Monday and Tuesday.
I fail to see how I was wrong when I said previously that he never drove the car. :confused:

Also you are a bit late.
Posted almost 3 days ago by myself:

It's on the previous page of this very thread! :D
:wave:

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yet you managed to completley ignore my post, or apparently read it at all, glossing over the part where Luca Badoer (you've heard of him right?) says “With testing being so restricted this year,” he explained, “it’s very difficult to step up to the race seat. I drove the F60 at Fiorano just for two filming days, on Monday and Tuesday, but it was good to get into a car that I haven’t driven for several months.”

"GOOD TO GET INTO A CAR I HAVEN'T DRIVEN FOR SEVERAL MONTHS"

that, to me, reads that he has driven the car before this weeks test, which i did read about and understand.

that is where i am saying you are wrong.

now Tamberello has kindly posted some evidence (which you couldn't be bothered to when i asked a previous time, whilst telling everyone else they were wrong :rolleyes: ) which seems to indicate the last test Badoer had was in a Hybrid (2008 can in 2009 trim/spec) so its possible that Luca is a bit mixed up, but his statement (the guy who drives for Ferrari, yeah) said otherwise, which was the only evidence i had seen. all in all it makes little difference, as i agree that he has next to no time in a car of the current spec and rules, but my reposnse was purely to your posturing over everyone who has the temerity to question your authority on matters F1 or Ferrari.

but thanks for pointing out i'm wrong again without bothering to read my posts, i'ts a pity you can't take as much time to consider others opinions as you do proclaiming yours

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Originally Posted by tamburello

http://www.forumula1.net/2008/f1/f1-...i-in-portimao/

That was Badoers last test for Ferrari, in an F2008 muletta to 2009 regulations.

So perhaps you don't look so smart now, cock?

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Let them be Tam, there's no need to bother.

After I said that Badoer never drove the F60, I posted this week the link to the story about him driving it for the first time this week for a commercial and than these 'heroes' come and say that I was wrong.

If they are happy with their logic than I couldn't care less.