Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Did you really just use the words knowledge and Limbaugh in the same sentence? :eek:
Gary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Did you really just use the words knowledge and Limbaugh in the same sentence? :eek:
Gary
He has forgotten more about poitical functioning than you, Dem., or it seems the general populace, will ever know.Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
Proven by the fear Dem. have shown in dealing with him.
I love it, they say-- don't listen to him, he is not important, well, if one is not important, then it is asininely stupid to tell people to not listen to that one.
Of course the Dem. always fall back on calling, those who do something they do not like, vilely hateful and prejudiced names, proving these people they attack are causing them to leave brown streaks in their under-pants.
what I really find interesting is the folks that can't understand guys like rush are nothing more than actors playing a part..Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
might as well be a cartoon character
I agree. Humpy Wheeler has the common sense to understand the fans love seeing Helio climb the fence; it's his tradition that is catching on in other areas of racing. That's what get the photographers' attention, which what gets seen in the media. Humpy also has a charm and wit about him that Barnhart doesn't have, and that would help in getting sponsors to listen to his presentation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
BTW, Comedian Rush Limbaugh is to knowledge what a butcher is to open heart surgery.
idk why but i can't read the orginal article can someone paste it in this thread please?
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...sted-from-ims/Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmart
do you have to be a memebr bc I wanted someone to copy and paste the words not the link bc the link brings up a blank page for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by The instant classic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Uh huh, sure. If you say so. :eek:
Gary
If anybody is getting "the boot" due to last year's BY 400 by rights it should be Brian France and his COT POS. How many years did NASCAR and Goodyear run successful 400 mile races at the Speedway prior to last year? 14 or or so? The 2005 edition ran on the coarse, diamond ground surface of that year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lousada
Despite all the spinning and finger-pointing by NASCAR TV press from 2008 the truth is inescapable once all the factors are examined, the COT design was responsible. Brian France was responsible. Not the IMS. Not Tony George. Brian France.
Plus, if ticket sales are lagging for the BY 400 that is due to the product scheduled to race on that date. The Indy 500 practically sold out, it did so with a mere fraction of the promotional effort NASCAR enjoys across multiple network ownership groups (networks who actually practice cross-promotion, unlike ABC's non-existant cooperation with Versus and Indycar).
Again, the buck stops with Brian France on this one. Not IMS. Not Tony George. BRAIN FRANCE.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled forum baloney....
Ok still no idea what's going on bc I can't read the article but I found this on indycar.com
Statement from IndyCar Series team owners:
During the past week there have been many rumors and innuendos about our CEO Tony George. We, the IndyCar team owners, want to express our full support to Tony. As an innovator and leader of our sport, he continually strives to help and improve IndyCar racing, and for that we are exceptionally grateful.
A.J. Foyt Racing
Andretti Green Racing
Dale Coyne Racing
Dreyer and Reinbold Racing
HVM Racing
KV Racing Technology
Luczo Dragon Racing
Newman/Haas/Lanigan Racing
Panther Racing
Target Chip Ganassi Racing
Team 3G
Team Penske
http://www.indycar.com/news/?story_id=14193
I agree, it seems that some fans just need any excuse to blame TG for everything even when he had noting to due with the mess. I think Brian France shared a lot of blame for the debacle, but not for the reasons mentioned. IHMO, the problem is Goodyear, and France and the rest of the N-Car management just lets it off the hook almost every time. Add in ridiculous tire size rules, and failure is inevitable.Quote:
Originally Posted by SportscarBruce
The COT isn't loved by most fans, even though it is much safer and looks like a car, unlike the old car that even DW said looked like a twisted piece of soap. But Goodyear has been extremely slow to build tires to handle the stresses. When it was suggested by a number of knowledgeable sources that a wider tire would help, Goodyear responded with a statement that it would take at least a year just to test a bigger diameter tire. First no one suggested a bigger diameter tire and a year? You are a tire company and should be able to sim any combination very quickly. A real tire company could probably have test tires in a couple months at the most. (FYI, I have Goodyears on 2 personal cars)
Brian France IHMO is a perfect example of nepotism gone bad. Unlike the previous France generations, he seems almost totally clueless about racing. If he wasn't a France, he wouldn't even get a shot at office staff.
I agree that the COT is the problem, particularly the way it's been developed in the last year and a half. But I can guarantee that another tire company would find a compound that worked with the COT. If France said either get the tire right this year or you're out, they'd have something. But Goodyear knows that they can get away with a 15-20 lap tire this year, and that's what they're going to provide, a moderate improvement.
what makes no sense to me....I dont follow nascar at all so perhaps I'm missing part of the story line here..
but why would goodyear be OK with a crappy tire that only lasts a partial stint... that can't good for sales Monday morning
Drivers were complaining about the tires on at least 4 tracks last year, starting with Tony Stewart's very vocal complaints at Atlanta and it continued through Indy. I don't think Goodyear goes into any race thinking "yeah, this tire is probably going to suck at this track" but, at least according to Stewart, their engineering is so behind Firestone and other manufacturers that what they think is a good tire actually is not. I'm far from a tire expert though, and drivers are known to find a scapegoat when they're not happy with the racing.
It may have to do with your internet privacy settings. Speed Channel's website loads cookies and crap galore - it's terrible what they've done to that site. It's the messiest and sloppiest site that I've seen. It's a site that I very seldom go to anymore, so I haven't changed the settings and even though I am a member, I'm getting a blank page in the center too.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmart
If things don't improve, George could try to sell the IRL, but who would buy it? Roger Penske, maybe? And what would it take to make it work?
"Leadership all around," said one track promoter who didn't want to be identified. "Professionals -- full-time, proven sales people and marketing people. True PR pros; broadcasting experts; and most of all, a single, solitary leader.
"These people have to come from auto racing or pro sports at least -- big-name people that you would recognize. Right now they are all amateurs."
Ouch...
I think Tony has done a good job at IMS, attendance has stayed even or improved in the last 2 years despite the economy. The smart move seems to be give Tony IMS and get some PR management pros to handle the IRL. The opposite sounds like a disaster to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MilkaDunoFan
I couldn't agree more
"Some track promoters feel the IRL hasn't done enough to support other races because George felt it would detract from the Indy 500. If so, it's flawed logic. One great event can't keep a league viable."
If this is true, and everything going back to the split suggests it is, then I would be very concerned if TG was solely in charge of the series that for many years he's simply used as a prop for the 500. NASCAR certainly benefits from Daytona (and Talladega to a similar extent) but their series has a very solid support for every race on the calendar. I do feel like a lot of IRL races are treated as second-rate events. The IRL has even admitted this, and said it's up to the local promoters to get the races in peoples faces... well, it's not working.
How would we know if attendance is up, down or unchanged? The track refuses to EVER give out those stats. I'd say from the TV coverage showing all the empty seats in the grandstands behind pit lane, it would be difficult to say they were up this year, unless there was a bumper crop in the infield. The latter being impossible to guess from the TV coverage. So maybe they were up, but to state this as if it were FACT is just not possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by MilkaDunoFan
Gary
from where I was sitting (across from pit in)....i could see all the way from turn 3 thru 4......the infield corner 'burm' in 4....all the way down inside of the main straight... and the what can be decieving becuase it's a 'across shot' of the main grand stands.... and turn one into the first short chute...Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
compared to the screen grabs from the telecasts the past 2 years which showed huge gaps of aluminum it certainly looked like attendance was up this year
Someone answers your post , then you resort to proclaiming to know their political allegiance by using the derogatory Dem instead of democrat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
As for Limbaugh, he knows nothing of political science and the mere fact that you think/believe he does is proof enough on it's own.
Recall "send them down the river" relating to drug users
"Go take those bones out of your nose" to a black caller.
"I hope he fails" regarding the sitting president"
I have many more of the $40 milllion dollar a year joke for a political whatever he is. They don't call his listeners, dittoheads for nothing. I'd much prefer bobbleheads.
As for Miller. His piece yesterday sums most everything up.
I was in the same seats this year and last. There are in the top of the North Vista. I can see 3-4-some of the front straight. What I saw was that the seats were about the same level of "fill" this year and last. But the infield this year was absolutely packed. So I would say attendance was up at least a bit. Plus it took like 4 hours to get from 65 to the north 40 on 30th street. Last year it took less than an hour.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken
I think it's a crapshoot either way, whether TG runs IMS or the IRL. But maybe if he concentrates on one or the other, he might come through. Come to think of it, maybe he'd be better off running the IRL. If he ran IMS, and he percieved the people who would run the racing series were beginning to de-emphasize Indy, we might go through this BS all over again...his mother and sisters are starting to look very sharp.
Chaparral66,
I think that's why the team owners wrote that letter in support of Tony George. I don't think that they're all in love with him. But if he gets taken out at IMS, how will they race? Where will they race? After all the years of speculation back & forth, we've recently had confirmation that the IRL has been a money loser since Day 1. And Tony himself has now admited that his sisters have never given the IRL their full and consistent support. So if he loses his ability to fund his pet (money losing) project, his failure to build the IRL into a profitable business, after 15 years of operation, could put the current IRL teams in a very bad spot.
At least for right now, Penske, Ganassi, AGR and ALL the others need Tony to be able to access IMS's "checking account." The IRL, on its own, is basically just another CART/CCWS waiting to happen. And this talk of a title sponsor being just around the corner has been around for years, and has now gotten rather old & tired. The NASCAR truck series found a title sponsor before Craftsman left. The Busch Series is now the Nationwide Series. Grand Am has Rolex. NHRA has Powerade. The IRL is still talking about the prom date that still hasn't happened... but any day now, she's gonna say "yes". The family seems to be at the point of saying "sh## or get off the pot!". As we've said on here before, that's just the free market in action. Though I think the person who used to say that a lot was applying it to CCWS, it applies equally to the IRL or any other business.
IMO, the IRL needs to come to grips with reality. Currently it remind me of Forsythe and several of the CCWS guys refusing lower sponsorship offers because they felt that taking less than $4 or $5 million would "devalue" their teams. Team Owner X: "This is what it costs! I won't take a cent less than what it costs!" Sponsor Y: "Well, I guess that's really nice and all... but I'm going to only offer you what I think it's worth." And we know how that turned out. But in this brave new world, I have a financial term for the IRL and Mr. George to ponder: "mark to market". Learn it. Live it. Love it (painful though it may be).
Ah, "mark to market". I was a principal in a service bureau for money market funds back during the Carter administration when interest rates went through the roof and dollars under management was doubling each month. That term, "mark to market" rose from the SEC and sent shudders through every portfolio managers bones at the prospect of having to do this on a daily basis. It was sweet music to my ears as it meant my customers were suddenly in NEED for a system to automate that process. But in digress...
I wonder if the series sponsorship or lack thereof is hinging on this point.
Gary
Some good points there, Jag, though I hardly think if the mom and sisters ran TG out of IMS, it's not as if they'd refuse the teams entry into the I500. After all, they need a open wheel series to race there to keep tradition. They don't want to carry on on just the Brickyard 400 alone, do they?
With the ouster iminent of Our Good Friend Tony George, we now have to think of the future of the series. What's gonna happen? If we are to believe the conventional wisdom that TG won the war, in winning did he lose the larger point?
Wouldn't it be funny if mom & sisters said take off altogether to Tony, placed Humpy Wheeler or even Chris Pook in charge of the IRL, and they said, "OK, the new car in 2010 is the recent Panoz designed Champ Car, It's already here, it's battle tested already, let's go with this to save some money. Plus, it just looks better than the eyesore we're currently running. Let's keep a fairly even stack of ovals and roadcourses, and let's get back to Cleveland, Michigan, Fontana, and Australia, to say the least, and let's find a damned title sponsor to take some of this burden off our backs. No, I don't think we qualify for a stimulus package. We have to do this ourselves. The current business model is not working."
Wouldn't that be funny?
Some more good points. But tell me the truth, Indy wouldn't be quite the same without open wheel race cars zooming around it, right?
But since you now have a roadcourse built into the place, you certainly can have other events there in addition to the two major oval events; problem here is if it isn't F1, you probably won't fill the place up, which would lead to a question as to whether having events such as ALMS or Grand Am, even with support events, is worth the expense of putting it on. Bringing in NASCAR with the Brickyard 400 was a calculated gamble that worked well, given NASCAR's rapid gowth at the time. Bringing in anything that lacking in tradition besides really big events is probably a crapshoot.
No, I don't think they'd refuse them entry into the Indy 500. What I mean is, the financial support from IMS, that has kept the IRL afloat, could be reduced or cut altogether without Tony being in charge. That is why I think these teams are lining up behind Tony George.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaparral66
Makes sense. I'm thinking it wouldn't be cut altogether since there needs to be some support, but reduced, even substantially, yeah, that could definitely happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
Starter: I understand what you're saying about that casual fan, but even the casual fan can tell the difference betwen an open wheel car and stock car, even if they can't talk about it knowledgeably. If they were to watch the Indy 500 with cars other than open wheel, I bet they pick up on something strange and say "This doesn't look right."
I hear ya, Chap. No matter how uninformed the general public is about the Indy 500 and Indy Car, there is still a general understanding that "Indy 500" means fast, dangerous, open-wheel racing. That's not to say that America couldn't live without the Indy 500, just that any other kinds of cars competing in the race wouldn't be right.
My Question ...
... Is the grandson going to survive this? My thoughts are only a W.A.G.
Sure, he'll survive. If I can paraphrase, I think the family is saying that the IMS bank is closed for the most part. IMS will always support the IRL at some level, but not in an unlimited way as before. TG will run the IRL since it is his brainchild. The only question he has to answer now is, "Who's your daddy?", financially speaking, that is.
Perhaps I should have said, "Hoosier daddy?" :)
Oh, c'mon, now! Like you wouldn't have said that, LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by Starter
IMO, Ken's link in post #158 to Bruce Martin's piece seems the most logical. The family seemingly has not been shy about shoveling dollars where they're needed, be it a new grandstand or pagoda at the Speedway, the IRL, Vision Racing or whatever. The company hasn't hesitated to bring people in and try them to reach goals they need. If some type of reorganization is planned at the family level, or structure level, guess I'll watch what happens and draw an opinion from that.