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Rex, I imagine the F1 crowd spent more per capita in tourism dollars but I don't know that it exceeded either the Brickyard 400 or Indianapolis 500. An economic impact study a few years ago showed the "500" and "400" ahead of the F1 race, which was fifth, with the Super Bowl and Daytona 500 also in the top five.
Yes, I used that number in respect to F1 attendance. F1 events don't come close to the Indianapolis 500 or Brickyard 400 in attendance.
Its not my opinion. The global business community thinks very highly of the Surfers race. You'll be surprised by the response you get from some of the team owners who were there last week.Quote:
Originally Posted by downtowndeco
Then there's the fans that follow many professional race drivers from that geographic area. If overseas TV is an important revenue component to a series then its good business practice to race in that vicinity.
Why does the ICS race in Japan?
The ICS races in Japan obviously because of its relationship with Honda. Secondarily (and I can't remember where I read this), outside of the U.S., there are more hits on the Speedway website from Japan than any other country.
Yes, I'd be very surprised if the business-oriented owners who lose money by going to Surfers might like the race, but can't afford the tab.
And for AMERICAN sponsors which are not factors of consequence in the "global business community," it's a throwaway.
Do you really think that "GreenPrix" will compete with the IndyCar Series????Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Do you know Ben Johnston??? His background in racing (should not take long to find out -very little). Business background?? (other than is own PR BS?)
This guy has NO experience in forming, running a race series. He DOES NOT have the $$$ to run a series. The best you will see is an "Executive Drive" type deal, not a professional race series.
I hate to see the Atlantic Series go away, but it will. Paul G. has a ton more money that Johnston ever thought about having.
TA will go the same way Trans-Am went --down the drain.
The ICS was started using a core component from CART - the Indy 500 - by someone who was a CART insider, with the specific intention of destroying CART. Thus it was a civil war. That was what was so damaging. The idea that because the civil war was won this grants immunity to all future challenges is a head in the sand attitute.Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
A brand new series from scratch is not the same at all. If the ICS is operating well and with all its core components and players intact, then there is no reason to break a sweat at all when some newcomer comes along. If the ICS is hemoraging away important components that others are collecting (such as the Surfers or other races, a fleet modern racecars, support series), well don't blame the ones who aquire them and save them from death. They weren't stolen from under the IRL's feat like happend in 1995. We have people right in this thread advocating the IRL to discard some of these components of itself - but then shocked, somehow absurdly are shocked, that someone else might come along and build something with those components
No one suggested granting immunity. I said it was a stupid idea to start another series based on the discarded components of the war between CCWS and IRL. Explain to me how using "discarded" components is "a brand new series from scratch". By using these components it is positioning itself in direct competition for the same viewers, teams, drivers, fans and most important... sponsors. We tried that for twelve years, it didn't work. Why is there a new found hope that it will miraculously work now? Tell me who's head is in the sand, with that brainstorm.Quote:
Originally Posted by CCWS77
Gary
If the series gets even off the ground it will not threaten anyone. It is to be, as I understand, it arrive and drive with all the cars looked after by the organizer. You will rent a ride race by race and will not have your own shop or crew but those supplied by the organizer.
In other words basically rent a drive rich racers. I highly doubt if any real pros will take part.
Who the heck is going to want to watch Richie Rich the 17th race? If he was any good he would be in one of the other pro series.
Exactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy Drifter
It is simply a new vintage racing series, with the distinction that, rather than having a half dozen or so arrive and drive outfits providing the majority of the cars taking part, there is just one providing all the car. But, because the cars are former CCWS cars, some people get their knickers all up in a knot over it. There is zero overlap with the IRL.
Zero.
Seeing the current situation of Indycar and their ***** cars, I would be greatly interested in another open wheel series, business wise it may sound stupid to some people, but I'm a motorsport fan and at the very least, there's 2 more years before Indycar has a new chassis, so there's at least something proper to watch.
At what price? Didn't we learn ANYTHING from the past twelve years? It was a really stupid idea when the IRL was formed, and it would be an equally stupid idea for another open wheel series to be formed to chase the same fans, venues, driver and sponsors.Quote:
Originally Posted by speeddurango
Gary
PROPER to watch? Sheesh.
You're not getting this.Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
They would NOT be chasing after the same fans. It's an arrive and drive vintage racing series. It will appeal to people, like myself, who enjoy vintage racing. It will also appeal to people, like myself, who were CART fans, and when that was gone we were fans of the next closest thing, until that became a shadow of its former self and there wasn't another interesting product out there. These people, like myself, see no appeal in the current technical specifications or management of the IRL, so we will never become IRL fans. Never. The latest news is that they have decided the high-downforce formula is the way to go, including on ovals. In other words, if there was any hope of something decent around the corner, that hope has now been dashed.
Along comes somebody who wants to run an arrive and drive vintage series with some appealing equipment. As with other vintage racing, most of the tab will be paid by the competitors. Like most vintage races, they will take out an insurance policy so they can have spectators, they will charge for tickets to help defray their costs, and the spectators can watch some rich guys having fun with their expensive (and nice sounding) toys and remember the good old days when we saw these cars racing when they were new.
Everybody wins.
Oh I get it all right. At first blush I thought it was exactly as you laid it out. And in that context I thought (and still think) it was a good idea. I am a HUGE fan of vintage racing. It is one of my favorite forms of racing. But then I heard noises about the new series saying they would be happy to run at Surfer's Paradise if the IRL decided not to run, and then my skeptic radar started going off, and I smelled a rat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miatanut
I fully admit I might be wrong, it is much to early for EITHER of us to sum up the intentions of the series. But I am pretty sure there are those, unlike you, who see this as the second coming of CART. Or at the very least hope it to be such. (I sense a hint of that hope in your first paragraph, but take you at your word that you see this as a vintage series.)
If it turns out this is no more than an arrive and drive, rich boy hobbyist series in the vein of the other vintage series around the country, then hats off to 'em and sign me up for tickets. If, on the other hand, this is a back door attempt to reconstitute another civil war, include me out. Because if it IS a back door, then they will be fighting for the same sponsors, venues, drivers and teams. Only time will tell.
Gary
What Gary said.
They have announced they're going to run. Bill Tempero did that with the AIS years ago and they ran for several years with absolutely no impact on the series that fielded Indy cars, regardless of who sanctioned what at the time. They deliberately did NOT compete and I don't think the ALMS is, either. They're different marketing and business plans and kinds of races, just like NASCAR is. IMO, the Green Prix can do what it has to do, draw those who have an interest and go their own way without anyone getting their panties in a wad. It will not be a threat to anything else out there and there is not a fourth Civil War in the making.
You're seeing something that ain't there.Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
My hope was that GF and KK would remodel the Atlantics with turbos and less downforce so it could go back to being one step away from F1, like it was in the '70's. An open wheel road racing series for young hotshoes trying to make it to the big time. With this guy now in control, I see zero chance of that happening and I wonder if Atlantic will even be around five years from now.
If somebody wanted to create a new series to compete against Tony's, first step is they would need to find some Sheikh with about a half a billion dollars to blow on it, and even then, the last couple of those haven't exactly set the world on fire.
This is an arrive and drive vintage racing series with the high-downforce cars we've known the last few years. I personally prefer the vintage races with the old, no downforce, bias ply-tired cars of my childhood, although I do enjoy the F-5000's. They have so much torque that even though they have some downforce, they're all over the place.
I do hope that at some point, somebody remodels and existing series or starts a new series for low-downforce, high power, cost-effective, open wheel road racing. I don't think it would take long to take off.
Like I said, I do take your word for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miatanut
I too, wanted to see a low downforce, high torque, tails out series for Atlantics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miatanut
Can I get an AMEN! I love those beasts and the old Can-AM stuff. About 15 years ago I went to an incredible Can-AM reunion at Watkins Glen. I got to meet Denny Hulme and tip a few with Brian Redmond.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miatanut
Again I gotta say AMEN. As I am sure you remember, this is NOT the first time you and I have been on the same side of the low downforce, high-power, make the drivers work for it, style of racing discussion!Quote:
Originally Posted by Miatanut
Cheers!
Gary
Atlantic, Star Mazda, Indy Lights all specifically copy what Indycar (or ChampCar) were doing. There was no chance under the previous owners that any of these series were going to start with a radical new formula. That becomes more likely with a new owner not affiliated with the IRL, not less. The IRL has already said the new car will be high downforce. If you dream of a low downforce high power series then start praying to Ben Johnston.
Pray for him to once again fragment AOWR into two camps at a time when the economy is already causing serious issues. Thanks, but no thanks. I'll pray he fails, if that is his plan. I'd love to see a low downforce high power series but not at the expense of the distinct possibility of it destroying AOWR in the process.Quote:
Originally Posted by CCWS77
Gary
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Originally Posted by garyshell
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken
Ding... dong... :D
I wonder what happened to all the cars he bought?
Gary
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Originally Posted by garyshell
Gary... your slow man
ive referenced this a couple times in the last few months...
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Originally Posted by Ken
Not slow, just patient. Look at item #4 in the quoted text, then look at the calendar.
Gary
I know what it says gary.... this aint rocket science man....
just pass along an address and i'll send off a six pack
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Originally Posted by Ken
Well, we need to deduct the price of a good rootbeer...
http://www.motorsportforums.com/foru...eer#post680046
Gary
Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
the rootbeer is all good..... I'll wait to collect that in person someday.... bound to happen
So Ken, or anyone else, did you hear what became of this guy and/or all the chassis he bought? I know he was thwarted at the last minute in his attempt to buy engines. But that was the last I heard of this story.
Gary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken
And I'll do the same with the beer bet. But we will have to meet somewhere off track as the likelihood of finding a GOOD beer :beer :o r rootbeer :beer :( a clear stipulation in both bets) at any track falls somewhere betwixt slim and none.
Gary
:beer:
no clue.... I've been way too focused on the TV ratings to pay attention to anything else...Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
BTW who won the championship?
Damn it man, warn me when you are going to go into Henny Youngman mode, so I can put down the can of diet coke BEFORE I read these... ok? For those of you under 40 (or should that be 50?) : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henny_Youngman)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken
Now, I gotta go find that can of screen wipes. Jeesh... :s mokin:
Gary
You guys drug me back from the dead.
It's alive! It's ahhlive!! It's ahhhhhlive!!! :vader:Quote:
Originally Posted by nanders
Gary