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It is such a shame that after a thrilling race, we have to nit-pick over the finest details such as 'did he gain an advantage?', 'but that was negated as he ran off the road', 'we can prove he was 6kph slower over the line' and so on. It really turns our sport into a farce.
This has done nothing but harm F1 in the eyes of its fans (but since when did Bernie or Max care about the fans - as long as the corporate sponsors are happy...)
For the first time in years I didn't see all of the race, but the fact that ioan doesn't think it's a fair punishment says it all to me :D
Is there a limit for how long the stewards have to issue a penalty? Similar to how a driver has 3 laps to serve a penalty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aikidoka
From one of the links posted earlier there is also a suggestion that McLaren checked it with Charlie Whiting as to it's legitimacy which makes the penalty even more harsh, especially as it was issued retrospectively. It's also likely that Lewis would have slowed in the last couple of laps whereas if he'd had say 2 laps after a drive through he might have been able to make up a bit of time. Not saying that e would have done, nor could close the gap, just that the way the penalty was issued was sneaky and underhanded.
What makes you think Lewis wouldn't have turned into a goat if he had gone around the track properly and had to retire due to not having an opposable thumb on each finger to grip the wheel with? Lets talk about what happened after he went off. Not what we thought would have happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper
I'm pretty sure the stewards have 25 laps to impose a penalty but when an incident occurs only 2 laps from the end any question asking about how long a steward has to impose a penalty is surely irrelevant.
and to make matters worse, LH lost the lead to Kimi further into the lap, which would then have nullified ANY advantage perceived to have been gained by the incident, Kimi then went ahead and spun, allowing LH to take the lead and then he spun out later. So you mean that LH gained an unfair advantage?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gubbi
and the fact that Kimi retook the lead later did not mean anything?
Even though they both had to take evasive action because of rosberg?(which probably was a yellow flag situation and this kimi passed LH under a yellow, or at the very least gained an unfair advantage due)
I am shocked, completely shocked, and deeply saddened for LH, McLaren and all F1 fans the world over. The fallout from these actions are just beginning. I am sure sponsors aren't happy about this,the other teams won't be happy about this, and if Ferrari had any self respect and sportsmanship in them they would show up at the appeal and state that LH did not gain any advantage.
I am actually sick from this decision. I can't even type anymore!
I agree what Daniel has written 100%.I would just like to add that Kimi was quite glumshi protecting the line in the next corner.I also believe that in those conditions it would not have taking long Lewis to over take correctly.
Lewis has been the best driver this year so he deservs to win the Championship unless he starts to make mistakes as last year.
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
Didn't Lewis himself say he was going off when he came up against Nico, so Kimi can't really be classed as over taking?Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
Still think the whole thing is unfair :(
Also, can McLaren actually appeal a drivethru? Even a post race one?
Am seeing mixed opinions on this.
correction..Lewis didn't pass Kimi because of the slipstream (proof..he was even 6 kmh slower on the finishline) but due to later breaking..big difference there !Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
FIA
Ferrari Is Amazing
What a f****g joke. F1 is no longer a sport. Bunch of c***s
71minus,
Well, with this and the goings on in rallying, I think it should be renamed from motorsport to motorsoap *g*
ing disgraceful decision by the FIA, now try and convince me they dont favour Ferrari. I hate this sport sometimes.
Well we all know the Stewards' theme song---- 'Three blind mice'.
I just wonder how much actual racing experience they have, if any at all.
I have noticed people who have raced quite often have a different view of incidents than those who have not. In this case it seems pretty well everybody (but not all) are of the opinion there should be no penalty. I concur. As most of you who have read my other posts know I did race professionaly. I know Markabilly did too.
Many years ago the chief Steward in Ont. said he did not want former drivers as Stewards as they might be biased towards the drivers!
I am just afraid on the appeal that Lewis will be disqualified totally.
Right decision. Seeing it live on TV, I allready said that Lewis could have taken the corner normally, but in an attempt to gain advantage, he cut the chicane. That allowed him so much closer than he would have been, had he taken the chicane normally as he should have. That brat thinks he can get away with anything, thank god the stewards keep him under control.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMorel
F1 is now WWE in wheels. I'll be watching IRL and NASCAR in 2009, f*** F1.
he cut the corner because Kimi was pushing him wide, its obvious!
not that its going to make much difference but theres now an onile petition.. http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html
so, alongside raikkonen and on the inside for the next corner is somehow a worse position than having to lift off the throttle to let him by on the straight?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
i'm not a hamilton fan but, in this case, i don't regard that he did anything wrong.
he raced hard and fair, he carried more speed into the bus stop chicane, went around the outside and still had significant overlap at the corner exit.
it was kimi who broke the driver-on-driver rule (ask anybody who has raced open wheelers) that you always leave a piece of road for the guy on the outside. he was desperate to retain his lead and just drove hamilton off the road. he was left with no crash-free alternative but to go where he did.
besides, where was kimi's penalty for forcing another driver off the road?
where was rosberg's penalty for almost causing a collision with both hamilton and raikkonen?
where was kimi's penalty for passing hamilton under the yellow flags where rosberg was?
either way, what hamilton did had no effect on the outcome of the race.
What weaving are some people talking about? the weaving when he passed kimi? if so, he's behind on a straight and can do what he wants. it's only the leader who has the one-move rule.
i didn't see a lot of other weaving from him.
slipstream? if you look at the video, he'd be in kimi's slipstream for less than half a second over the entire length of the straight. no advantage, he didn't use the slipstream.
i can see that the stewards made a blue here (dennis asked charlie whiting at the time whether lewis had done the right thing and whiting replied that he had).
I can see a lot of ferrari opinion and conspiracy theory.
for the sake of this sport, i hope it was just incompetence from the stewards - especially after the convenience of judging massa's penalty last race when they knew just how much to give him so he would still win.
i hope it's incompetence and i hope it's rectified on appeal.
We are debating here whether Hamilton's pass was legal or not, but those moments were totally Kimi's faults, because he was braking soo early into the corners. What was Hamilton supposed to do? Take alongside him and pass if he was given an opportunity so easily. Lewis is the victim of Kimi's extremely cautious driving. :rolleyes:
Which ignores the fact that Lewis was 6km/h slower than Kimi as they crossed the start/finish line. What is seen as the slipstream was simply Lewis being Lewis on the brakes i.e. better & later than anyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Lewis was the best driver in the race and the decision by the FIA is an abousolute joke.
I think you're 100% correct. Screw those stupid punks who decide to race rather than play grab ass up and down the circuit. You and I think alike in the sense that if someone wins on merit, then they should be punished.Quote:
Originally Posted by COD
/sarcasm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Well good luck to MacLeran on that... Though the most damning part of it was the fact Ron Dennis wasn't sure that just giving back the position to Kimi was enough at the time so he asked Charlie... and how MacLeran decided to risk 2nd place and probably 1st place points over a "probably" is beyond me...
To stay on the track, Lewis would have had to lift off and give Kimi the corner, hence Kimi would have had a much bigger gap to Hamilton afterwards...
If even MacLeran wasn't sure they satisfied the rules at the time, how can anyone be criticle of the stewerts for this decision?!?!
Just wanted to find out whether it would be relevant or not, I thought that the incident happend more than 2 laps from the end anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by GridGirl
the real irony here is that the stewards punished heikki for failing to avoid an avoidable collision, then punished hamilton for actually avoiding an avoidable collision!
and almost in the same place.
that's not what they've punished him forQuote:
Originally Posted by Mickey T
People have been saying Lewis had the momentum by cutting the chicane, but how do you gain momentum by reducing your amount of acceleration lmao
And also Lewis was right on Kimis gearbox going into the chicane, and was once he let him past, so how has he gained time there. load of poop I tell you.
Why should the penalty be increased? The penalty for this infringement is a drive through or a 25 seconds time penalty if it's too late or a drive through.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
The FIA have a funny way of taking exception to having their decisions questioned, and ussually add to penalties after a failed appeal...
all in all its a shame that ferrari had to complain when the recipient of the alleged unfair treatment couldn't hack the pressure, ran wide and stacked his car into the fence!
There is only 1 loser in this crappy affair, and thats the F1 fans who paid shed loads of money to watch the "race" and the millions who wasted their time watching the TV.
Off to wop land next week. Another Ferrari fixed win must be on the cards.
F1 is now officially a joke.
imo, stewards are wrong with Lewis penalty, he let Kimi pass before the finishing line, overtake before la sources, even Charley Whiting even said it was ok. IF the FIA doesn't overrule the penalty, with ferrari/massa pit lane cock up in Valencia, We think should call Formula 1 new name: Ferrari 1.
So where is the fine/penalty for the Williams that was slow on the racing line & nearly took out both leaders?
Everytime you think this sport has reached a new low it gets lower.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper
Thats the way I see it... however...
To those who say Lewis gained an advantage being forced off the track by being able to be closer to Kimi, despite letting off and giving him back his place, I can also see where they are coming from.
Its actually a pretty difficult decision to rule.. but by being inconsistant with previous decisions the FIA have possibly just proven once again that they have an anti-McLaren agenda.
Previous similar incidents/FIA decisions should set a precedent for decisions like today.. unless of course a new rule has been implemented, which begs the question..
What year did the 'gain an advantage' rule come into place? I'd have though the answer would be 'always'.. ??
Ferrari didn't complain. The stewards asked for their opinion and Ferrari gave it to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by 71minus2
The advantage of being inconsistent is there will be a "precedent" no matter which way you rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zico
yeah if we are going to start dropping penalties, that would be the place to start. If it had just been Kim and ham, who knows whether kimi would have ended up all over the road. Thing is who was that? was it Rosberg or the other...Quote:
Originally Posted by THE_LIBERATOR
nevertheless, it was raining.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy Drifter
I am no fan of LH dues primarily to his big mouth, but this was a rip off. In the wet, one is taking a chance and once the tires aquaplane, the best driver in the world is not going to save it and will slip and slide. Only liuck will permit survival. Hamilton was bragging about his skill afterwards, and i say what a crock on that. View the tapes again and look at all of his off-roading, and you will see right before kimi spun again hamilton was off and nearly stuck on the grass, but got lucky.
How anyone could be any type of former racing driver who has been in the rain and find something to penalize is beyond me. Of course there are ham fans who will always say that he was done wrong because they are his fans, but all the same, NO penalty, and if kimi had come out ahead--even though he was also all over the track---- I would say the same: no penalty.
Fact is despite what I said or implied above, due to the rain, I also say no penalty on the Williams driver either..
Reminds me again of the line from The Natural where Redford asks the news reporter (Duvall) "did you ever play the game??"
Sure is nice to watch this in very slow motion, frame by frame, to figure what the driver should have done, but get real, 99.999% of what we saw was instinctual reaction by all, not carefully thought strategy (so shut Lewis!!!)
and given that kimi got back in front, and far enough ahead of Hamster before he spun (and Hamster was just completing his own off-road trip), it is hard to say there should be any penalty.
Listen I don't care how McLaren want to dress it up. He could have been 500kph slower. He went off the track and appeared to make a gain for doing so.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
End of story.....
You either have a sport which is 100% show and has very loose regulations or you have a sport which is highly regulated and as such is very fair.
Unfortunately for the integrity of F1...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior