Official NHL/hockey thread

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Originally Posted by Sirius

It was a game to forget for you and the rest of the Leafs fans here on the forum raikk, however I have to say that my interest in the league these days is rather lacking. I haven't watched too many games since the lockout ended, but when I do, I watch games that are filled with one penalty after the other, and the game between the Canucks and Leaf this past weekend was one big parade to the penalty box. I suppose I shouldn't really complain about it because we did win the game in the end, however I'm trying my best to warm up to this new brand of hockey these days but it is very difficult.

Sirius

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I think the parade to the penalty box will subside in the next few years. As time goes on, guys will quit doing the mickey mouse stuff that gets you a penalty for dragging a stick on a body and getting nailed for hooking, or pulling your arm on a guy and getting called for holding. You have years and years of guys water-skiing, bulldogging, boarding, interfering, tripping, elbowing and general mayhem that used to be allowed within reason. IT made watching hockey a wrestling match without Vince McMahon.

So it is the other way now, I can understand your frustration, but last time I looked, guys with talent were not being penalized by the Wade Belak's and Bryan Marchments of hockey. People who have talent now can get to the net. As for the defense in front of the net clearing guys, you will notice they are doing and getting to do some of that, within reason. Just the cross checking and sticking a blade in the guys ribs are now automatic calls.

I prefer THIS hockey to the wrestling match stuff we had before the lockout, and as an avid fan of Junior A, I have noticed that it really makes a huge difference to the guys in the CHL. OF course, I am biased, I get to see John Tavares here in Oshawa, and he is just flying...as a 16 year old.

I hope these parades end soon otherwise they will be many disgruntled fans who will turn their backs on the game for good. I'm all for improving the product on the ice, but some of these games are unbearable. I know what you are probably saying and that is don't watch hockey if you don't enjoy it. It is difficult to turn your back on a game that you've watched for many, many years now. I, like you are a true hockey fan and letting go of this game would be tough thing to do altogether. I do still have hope though!

It comes as no surrpise to me that old habits are hard to break for these players and it seems as though no one is immune. One of Bettman's protestations was that the players will soon learn not to hook, hold and interfere with other players, however judging by the number of power plays, I would say that the message isn't getting through as of yet. If I were an advertiser, I know where I'd be buying my advertising space...right in the penalty box!

I am glad that they are letting the players battle in front of the net because for the life of me I can't imagine players just floating around the goal crease completely unimpeded all night long.

I used to love watching Scott Stevens play because he played with such fierce intensity and that intensity is missng from the game in my eyes.

Sirius

Is it finally safe to say that we won't be seeing Philly in play-offs? :dozey:

A.F.F., they wont partially because Bobby Clarke the GM of the Flyers was such a big fan of the old style of hockey. He built a team to play clutch and grab in a NHL where speed is king and holding, clutching and mugging your opponent is not allowed...and it shows this year as they just suck.

Sirius, I understand you hate all the power plays and the constant parade to the box, but Bettman is right sooner or later they will get it, or they will be out of the league. Part of the reason guys hold and hook is because they cant stop the other players in any other way. Scott Steven's, your favourite example would do just fine because he had the talent and skills to play in today's NHL. Hitting isn't down, Dion Phanuef is still laying out people not paying attention legally. Speed is up, creative play making is up, just the mugging of the talented players is down. Any time you give the less talented players room outside the rules to take way the creativity of the talented, you are making it a game of rugby.

Watch hockey films from 20 or 30 years ago. Hooking and holding were a lot less, but as the league got watered down, the ref's were told to over look a lot of it. Not now, they call everything for the reason that if you dont', every hook and every hold becomes a judgement call a ref cannot reliably make. It is easier and more fair to say if you grab a guy, that is holding, and if you hook a guy, that is hooking. If you do not take these measures, the boys will be water skiing again. My brother-in-law has been a ref for 23 years in minor hockey. He is licensed to ref games as high as the CHL. He would have made a go at an NHL career if other issues didn't intercede. The other brother did referee in the OHL when Gretzky was with the Soo Greyhounds. Both of them have told me that what is happening now is the first time the rule book has been enforced and backed up by head office.

I love hockey and did a lot less before they changed things. It used to drive me crazy when Mats Sundin or Mario Lemieux would have some schlep hacking, slashing and generally mugging them as they tried to make a play. Heck, they would get that when they didn't have the puck. THAT is interference according to the rules. Really all the ref's are doing is calling the rules in the book as they were written. It is THAT simple.

For the first time, referee's are not being asked to define grey areas. By putting the onus on the players to not hook, hold or put their stick on another player, they put it on the players to play the game according to the rules. There is no gray area for coaches to complain about. You want better hockey, wait for players who have grown up not playing interference hockey to come along. Notice smaller players are now getting a fair chance to get a career. No longer are big stooges with long arms and slow feet going in the first round. No, the hockey is improving all the time....

Leafs start winning streak! up to 2 now :)

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

A.F.F., they wont partially because Bobby Clarke the GM of the Flyers was such a big fan of the old style of hockey. He built a team to play clutch and grab in a NHL where speed is king and holding, clutching and mugging your opponent is not allowed...and it shows this year as they just suck.

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Or possibly the Flyers are just a bunch of goons with Forsberg leading the troops?

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Originally Posted by raikk

Leafs start winning streak! up to 2 now :)

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And then it ends against the Penguins! :p :

anyone want to start a petition with me to make the Leafs tank for the next 4 years? :)

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Originally Posted by tstran17_88

And then it ends against the Penguins! :p :

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Big time!

Meanwhile the Habs climb the standings with a win against the Sabres :D

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Originally Posted by schmenke

Big time!

Meanwhile the Habs climb the standings with a win against the Sabres :D

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Go Leafs! :laugh:

BTW guys...who's the best team (record wise) in the NHL right now? :D

lol tstran.. preds probally the most underated team in the league...
Leafs need to get a consistant goalie above anything else at the trade deadline! way to go JFJ you traded our future allstar goalie for the next cloutier... wonderful..

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Originally Posted by raikk

anyone want to start a petition with me to make the Leafs tank for the next 4 years? :)

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They don't get Pogge in net in the next 2 years, and they will be in the tank!!!

Actually to be fair, Raycroft stole two games in Florida, and had no help Saturday against the flightless waterfowl. Raycroft is an ok goalie, no more, and there is no guarntee Tukka Rask was/is gonna be a super star. Junior phenoms can flame out too easily.

I think JFJ has done a poor job of managing his money. If he didn't over pay for McCabe (no good in his own end, one dimensional) and Kubina ( not worth Kaberle money)he would have the money to acquire some salary before the trade deadline. Now he has no money, and he might have to trade Sundin (not a good idea but if you are rebuilding, it might be good to let him win a cup somewheres) to get some money freed up. Then again, when management wouldn't give him more than a one year contract, it said he had to win now, and that ALWAYS leads to bad decisions when you have a so-so lineup. The only REALLY smart thing he has done is hire Paul Maurice. The guy could get a gallon of juice out of a lemon.....

Oh one more thing. Apparently the long feud between the Leaf's and ex-star Dave Keon appears to be over. Apparently when they honour the 67 Leafs team later in Febuary, he said he will show up. I can just imagine the ovation he will get, because he is a mythical figure to those 60's fans....Alas, I was too young to remember that last Stanley Cup win, I was only 2!

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Oh one more thing. Apparently the long feud between the Leaf's and ex-star Dave Keon appears to be over. Apparently when they honour the 67 Leafs team later in Febuary, he said he will show up. I can just imagine the ovation he will get, because he is a mythical figure to those 60's fans....Alas, I was too young to remember that last Stanley Cup win, I was only 2!

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ahh yes.. It's a good thing to.. he was arguably the best player the Leafs ever had..

On a related note it is reported that Wellwood is goiung to have surgery and will be out indeffinetly 6-8 weeks.... DOH! I think Kyle Wellwood has many of the qualities that Keon has which is why he is one of my fave players int he NHL today...

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Sirius, I understand you hate all the power plays and the constant parade to the box, but Bettman is right sooner or later they will get it, or they will be out of the league. Part of the reason guys hold and hook is because they cant stop the other players in any other way.

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I wouldn't say that I hate the power plays Mark. It's just that some of these penalties are absolutely ridiculous! The delay of game penalties for one example, are a joke. YES, some delay of game penalties are justified, however there are far too many that border on the side of stupidity. Now, in the case of the holding calls, I do agree that if a player takes one hand off his stick and uses it to hold another, he should be penalised and that is fine, however some of these hooking calls are laughable. I guess you could say that the skilled players have all the ice they need now, however I miss the days when a player had fight through traffic. Yeah...the skilled player is great when there is no one bothering him, but let see just how good he is when his life is made a little miserable by a forceful yet effective checker. I saw nothing wrong with a player taking his stick and whacking another player on the side of his pants. All within reason of course! Now if he really hooks, and I mean really hooks another player, then he gets a penalty. All the league needed to do was to call the game properly, then we wouldn't be in this awful transitional stage we are in today. Today's game is all about who has the best specialty teams.

In theory, Bettman's plan for a cleaner and faster game is all fine and dandy if the players are willing change their habits, but unfortunately I think many of these player's habits are instinctively ingrained in their being, and with that being said, I think the players still have quite a way to go. The younger players who are working their way up to the NHL are obviously in a much better situation because they will most certainly find the transition easier for various reasons. Old habits are hard to break.

I sure as hell hope that every hard working two-way player doesn't find himself out of a job because it's these such players who hold teams together when the going gets tough. I DO NOT want to see a league full of Sidney Crosbys and Jaromir Jagrs.

I wanted to see a coaching staff devise a system that could beat the trap because a trapping team has every right to play that way if they choose. I wanted to see a team beat a trapping team on a regular basis so as to force the trapping team into changing their approach to the game. I guess the Devils made them do it! ;)

Sirius

Well, you and I are not that far apart, but like I said, the odd smack on the pants turns into slashes and or hooks real easy.

Give it about 5 years when all the guys out of junior have been playing with these rules and start to filter in to the league. Something HAD to be done, because what was happening was just crap.

As for watching a guy fight off checks, if a player knows how to use his body, he can stick himself in the way in a way that wont get a penalty. As for the delay of game thing, well, I learned playing hockey a long time ago to dump a puck off the boards, and as a defenseman I never once put it over the glass. I cant understand what some of these guys are doing, but I agree, it is a lame penalty...

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Well, you and I are not that far apart

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You are right Mark, we really aren't that far apart at all. :up:

The important part in all of this is that the game is going in the right direction, albeit very slowly.

Now, if the league could rid themselves of that little runt Gary Bettman, the league would be really going in the right direction.

Sirius

Here here, I second that. Gary is a Toad, and I would love to take half the idiots in the US running teams and put the muzzle on them. The vote to put the sched back so every team plays everyone else at LEAST once fell by one vote. That jerk Lou Lamiorello said there was nothing wrong with the sched. He doesn't think so because he gets the Rangers, Islanders and Philly in his building for 12 out of 40 dates a year, and knows they are his only guarantee sellouts.....meanwhile we see Crosby not enough, out west doens't see Crosby save once every 3 years...and the Leaf's don't get to do their annual trip out west.

It just is a joke....but, hey under Bettman the NHL is more irrelevant than ever, yet the product is actually improving. Take away finally enforcing the rule book, and he has done NOTHING good....

Jere Lehtinen from Dallas is a two-way player with capital letters and I read an interview where he said NHL feels good the way it does now. However, he mentioned there are still too many powerplays but if they find a way to get rid of them, it's better than years. :mark:

Well, if the players don't like Powerplays, they know how to stop it. The players always spout this crap about "policing the game themselves" but the reality of it is, if we left it to them, it would be the law of the jungle....

Lets face it, they complain when the ref's didn't do anything but call the most obvious muggings, then they complain when they call everything. Here is a clue, they complain!!!

Hockey players are funny people,and good ones, but they have some wacky views of how the world works...

To be honest, I'm nowhere near qualified to say how NHL works right now because I cannot see the games, therefore I follow it mainly from their website. And as we now, the figures often tell only the half of the truth.

One thing is sure though... my hips don't lie.

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

The players always spout this crap about "policing the game themselves" but the reality of it is, if we left it to them, it would be the law of the jungle....

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Hey Mark, come on now...didn't you enjoy Slapshot? ;)

We will definately have to have a serious discussion about Lou Lamoriello. The man is a hockey genius...plain and simple.

AFF, I think most of us are just glad the allstar break is done so we can get back to some serious hockey.

Sirius

You got that right Sirius. The playoffs are closer every day :)

Sigh... what'll it be raikk? :dozey:

Schmenke...gotta quit betting on the Habs in Toronto. You will learn someday....


Sirius, Lou is a genius as far as judging talent, and understanding where the league is often going, but he looks after his team first, and not the league's interest. He thinks there is nothing wrong with a sched that only takes Sidney Crosby to Western Cities (and by extention, Ovechkin, Malkin and other young stars in the east) once every 3 years. Of course, it works well for the Devils, only one western road trip a year, most of the games within bus range, all his rivals for one third of his games. Ya...it works out well for him, but I think the league needs to look beyond this rivalry stuff. The Rivalries are best because of a playoff beating or two, not meeting in the middle of Febuary playing out the string.....

Hi guys,

Is anyone going to the world Championships this year ?

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Originally Posted by BTCC2

Hi guys,

Is anyone going to the world Championships this year ?

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Yes there is. Every frigging year.

woooot we win! ok schmenke your siggy will go as follows..
''Habs tickets: $120 ,Beer(s) for the game $17 : Seeing the Habs get owned by the Leafs: Priceless ''

:)

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Originally Posted by A.F.F.

Yes there is. Every frigging year.

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I still don't know whether or not I am going to be going.

I mean I don't want to sound pesemistic but I know that Great Britain are going to be rubbish again. Also Division 1 is in Slovenia and I don't really know if I could get there.

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Originally Posted by BTCC2

I still don't know whether or not I am going to be going.

I mean I don't want to sound pesemistic but I know that Great Britain are going to be rubbish again. Also Division 1 is in Slovenia and I don't really know if I could get there.

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I do have to apologize. I read your previous post;" Is there going to be World championships this year?". And I answered that. Sorry :angel: :)

No problem A.F.F.

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Schmenke...gotta quit betting on the Habs in Toronto. You will learn someday....


Sirius, Lou is a genius as far as judging talent, and understanding where the league is often going, but he looks after his team first, and not the league's interest. He thinks there is nothing wrong with a sched that only takes Sidney Crosby to Western Cities (and by extention, Ovechkin, Malkin and other young stars in the east) once every 3 years. Of course, it works well for the Devils, only one western road trip a year, most of the games within bus range, all his rivals for one third of his games. Ya...it works out well for him, but I think the league needs to look beyond this rivalry stuff. The Rivalries are best because of a playoff beating or two, not meeting in the middle of Febuary playing out the string.....

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Well Mark, I would only think it natural for a GM to look after his team first and foremost.

I would have to disagree with you on your point about Lou not having the league's best interests at heart. Firstly, he was an instrumental figure during the recent lockout that saw him partake in several important meetings between the two sides. He was asked by the Union to help in the negotiations process and that along with the fact that he belongs to the NHL's negotiating committee would lead one to believe that he does have the league's best interests at heart. So to suggest that he doesn't have the league's interest at heart is a little erroneous if you ask me, but hey, believe what you will. Secondly, the unbalanced schedule was arranged not only to increase the rivalries between teams but to also cut costs for some of the smaller market teams. Not every team can sellout their building like the Leafs you know.

And lastly, the Devils have played many seasons with plenty of travel out west and they were still a very successful franchise. This is the one point that will continually bother me and that is this nonsense about the travel. Yeah...the west may have to travel to different time zones more often, but good god, these are professional atheletes who are supposed to be in great shape. Travel is part of the game, and if you don't like it, move to another city. There is obviously going to be some differences in travel time and the like, however that is something no one can really do anything about now can they? It sure didn't seem to bother the talent laden Edmonton Oiler teams of the 80's. The Devils and other teams in the east cannot keep apologising for the fact that they have less travel than others. That is life.

Now after that Mark...aren't you happy that your Leafs beat the Habs?

Sirius

can you believe what Gary is thinking?

enlarging the nets for next year :mark:

thats stupid and just about every hockey fan thinks that.

Gotta love that that Habs cant beat the Leafs, and I wont disagree entirely Sirius in some of the good things Lou has done.

That said, if the greater good of the league conflicts with the Devils, then he isn't for the league in that case.


AS for enlarging the nets, no...shrink the goalie pad another inch in width (it will still protect the goalie), make the blocker an inch less in width, and tigthen up the goalie sweater some, and then leave it alone.

Gary wont be happy until he stage manages the league into a hole so deep no one will see daylight, and then he will still say attendance and ratings are up.

Gary, the net is 4 x 6. Live with it. If in Lacross they can score by the dozen into a smaller net with a bigger goalie, surely to heck they can figure out this problem without making the net bigger.

I like hockey just the way it is now. He has tinkered, enough.

Iggy to return tonight :up:

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Originally Posted by schmenke

Iggy to return tonight :up:

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bandwagoner :p : but wow thats pittsburgh vs Montreal game was great! and what a hit by Armstrong!
Leafs up to 3 in winning streak, penalty killing,goaltending PP has been great for us! keep it up and we will get rewarded! :up:

Schmenke is going to the dark side cause he knows his Habs are taking on water, and he is living in the city where the Flames are building another solid playoff team....

The think is Schmenke is from Montreal, so I cut him slack as a Hab's fan, but most of the Hab's fans I grew up with are the biggest band wagon jumpers of all. I grew up in the shadow of the Leaf's nation, and yet Hab's fans with no connection to Montreal sprung up based purely on the 70's era Habs in my age group. Great team then for sure, but that don't mean a life long devotion to em is justified, but then again, maybe the Leaf's don't deserve that either...oh never mind..lol

wow what an amazing win against the sens! Sundin and Pohl were outstanding!

I'm a bandwagon jumper, only started watching NHL in 1990, decided to support Habs. One Stanley Cup win since then, not likely this year bit will make Play offs. Good win over Penguins last night though.