Rally History (part III)

Hei Tom, I guess you would make a better chance for your questions here:
http://forums.autosport.com/forumdis...?s=&forumid=10

Hilsen fra Tyskland!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rx-guru

Hei Tom, I guess you would make a better chance for your questions here:
http://forums.autosport.com/forumdis...?s=&forumid=10

Hilsen fra Tyskland!

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Yes, you're probably right.


Thanks.

Tom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rx-guru

Hei Tom, I guess you would make a better chance for your questions here:
http://forums.autosport.com/forumdis...?s=&forumid=10

Hilsen fra Tyskland!

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I doubt it. Rally people on TNF are largely those on here - jrally, carles, me(under another name) etc!

This time I give it a try with missing names from the '67 season. Maybe it's more in line with the base of knowledge of most forum-members.



Monte-Carlo:
Bernd Jansson - T.... Senysmann (Renault)

Fiori:
Zefferino Filippi - A.... del Pozzo (Renault)


Pneumant:
Kenneth Gram Nielsen - M.... Sørensen (Mini Cooper)
Jan Lander Andersen - ?..... Nielsen (Fiat)

Tulpen:
Alfred Krause - J.... Brecheisen (Renault)

Austria:
R.... G.... Schachinger - ?.... Supang or M.... Stephany (Volvo)
Walter Roser - B.... Andrieu (Renault)

Acropolis:
Rune Larsson - ?.... Jonrup (Volvo)
Jan Erik Lundgren - ?.... Eriksson (Volvo)


Donau:
Joachim Springer - ?.... Brendel (BMW)
?.... Eschey - Dieter Eymann (BMW)

RACE:
Jose Lampreia - ?.... Nascimento (Renault)
Jose Maria Juncadella - ?.... Molist (Mini Cooper)
Jorge De Bagration - J.... Barcenas (Lancia)

3 Stadte:
K.... Reisch - Helmut Schwab (MG)
Gernot Fischer - ?.... Queissner (MG)
Helmut Klomfar - H.... Hopf (Porsche)


Tom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RiN

This time I give it a try with missing names from the '67 season. Maybe it's more in line with the base of knowledge of most forum-members.



Monte-Carlo:
Bernd Jansson - T.... Senysmann (Renault)

Fiori:
Zefferino Filippi - A.... del Pozzo (Renault)


Pneumant:
Kenneth Gram Nielsen - M.... Sørensen (Mini Cooper)
Jan Lander Andersen - ?..... Nielsen (Fiat)

Tulpen:
Alfred Krause - J.... Brecheisen (Renault)

Austria:
R.... G.... Schachinger - ?.... Supang or M.... Stephany (Volvo)
Walter Roser - B.... Andrieu (Renault)

Acropolis:
Rune Larsson - ?.... Jonrup (Volvo)
Jan Erik Lundgren - ?.... Eriksson (Volvo)


Donau:
Joachim Springer - ?.... Brendel (BMW)
?.... Eschey - Dieter Eymann (BMW)

RACE:
Jose Lampreia - ?.... Nascimento (Renault)
Jose Maria Juncadella - ?.... Molist (Mini Cooper)
Jorge De Bagration - J.... Barcenas (Lancia)

3 Stadte:
K.... Reisch - Helmut Schwab (MG)
Gernot Fischer - ?.... Queissner (MG)
Helmut Klomfar - H.... Hopf (Porsche)


Tom

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Hi, Tom,

I can add a few missing names:

- Berndt Jansson / Marianne Sengtsmann
- Zeffirino Filippi / Roberto del Pozzo
- R.G. Schachinger / M. Stephany
- Rune Larsson / K. Jonrup
- Jan-Erik Lundgren / Lars Eriksson
- Joachim Springer / Dr. G. Brendel
- X. Eschey / Dieter Eymann
- José Lampreia / Jorge Nascimento
- José María Juncadella / S. Molist
- Klaus Reisch / Helmut Schwab


Carles.

Thank you, Carles!!

Tom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RiN

This time I give it a try with missing names from the '67 season. Maybe it's more in line with the base of knowledge of most forum-members.



Monte-Carlo:
Bernd Jansson - T.... Senysmann (Renault)

Fiori:
Zefferino Filippi - A.... del Pozzo (Renault)


Pneumant:
Kenneth Gram Nielsen - M.... Sørensen (Mini Cooper)
Jan Lander Andersen - ?..... Nielsen (Fiat)

Tulpen:
Alfred Krause - J.... Brecheisen (Renault)

Austria:
R.... G.... Schachinger - ?.... Supang or M.... Stephany (Volvo)
Walter Roser - B.... Andrieu (Renault)

Acropolis:
Rune Larsson - ?.... Jonrup (Volvo)
Jan Erik Lundgren - ?.... Eriksson (Volvo)


Donau:
Joachim Springer - ?.... Brendel (BMW)
?.... Eschey - Dieter Eymann (BMW)

RACE:
Jose Lampreia - ?.... Nascimento (Renault)
Jose Maria Juncadella - ?.... Molist (Mini Cooper)
Jorge De Bagration - J.... Barcenas (Lancia)

3 Stadte:
K.... Reisch - Helmut Schwab (MG)
Gernot Fischer - ?.... Queissner (MG)
Helmut Klomfar - H.... Hopf (Porsche)


Tom

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Hi Tom,
I can add a few more

Joachim Springer - Gunther Brendel (BMW)
Josef Eschey - Dieter Eymann (BMW)
Jan Erik Lundgren - Lars Eriksson (Volvo)

In Tulpen Rally , Alfred Krause didn't finnished in top 10 !

Best regards
jorge

One thing, regardind 1967

Do You know their names ?

Austria - Arne Hallgren-??? Eriksson
Geneve - Claude Haldi-???? Halberthur

Thanks in advance
regards
jorge

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrally

Hi Tom,

In Tulpen Rally , Alfred Krause didn't finnished in top 10 !

Best regards
jorge

---

This is what I have, but maybe it's wrong:
(And Brecheisen's first name too. Forgot to delete him from my file with missing names :-) )

19e Tulpenrallye, 27 april - 2 may 1967
1 Vic Elford – David Stone GB Porsche 911 S
2 Timo Makinen – Paul Easter SF/GB BMC Mini Cooper S
3 Rauno Aaltonen – Henry Liddon SF/GB BMC Mini Cooper S
4 Björn Waldegård – Lars Helmér S Porsche 911
5 Julien Vernaeve – Mike Wood B/GB BMC Mini Cooper S
6 Wilfried Gass – Gerd Frey D Porsche 911
7 David Friswell - Chris Nash GB Lotus Elan
8 Alfred Krause - Jean Brecheisen F Renault R8 Gordini 1300
9 Rob Slotemaker - Rob Gorris NL BMW 2000 Ti
10 Peter Harper - David Pollard GB Sunbeam Imp

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrally

One thing, regardind 1967

Do You know their names ?

Austria - Arne Hallgren-??? Eriksson
Geneve - Claude Haldi-???? Halberthur

Thanks in advance
regards
jorge

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I have Stig Eriksson and Guido Haberthür.


Tom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrally

Hi Tom,
I can add a few more

Joachim Springer - Gunther Brendel (BMW)
Josef Eschey - Dieter Eymann (BMW)
Jan Erik Lundgren - Lars Eriksson (Volvo)

Best regards
jorge

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Thanks !!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RiN

This time I give it a try with missing names from the '67 season. Maybe it's more in line with the base of knowledge of most forum-members.



Austria:
R.... G.... Schachinger - ?.... Supang or M.... Stephany (Volvo)
Walter Roser - B.... Andrieu (Renault)

Acropolis:
Rune Larsson - ?.... Jonrup (Volvo)
Jan Erik Lundgren - ?.... Eriksson (Volvo)


Tom

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Manfred Stephany
Rune Larsson/Kjell Ehrman
Jan Erik Lundgren/Lars Eriksson
Regards
januszsz

I have following "blanks" in 1967. Maybe somebody can fill them:
Alpenfahrt
Loisl Wiener / ??
Donau
?. Wittig / ??
Gerhard Pöltinger / ??
Regards
januszsz

Thanks, januszsz !

I have:

Alois Wiener / Antonie Wiener - Glas 1304 GT

Egon Wittig / Harald Gottlieb - Alfa Romeo 1300
Walter Pöltinger / Ernst Merinsky - VW 1500.


Tom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RiN

Thanks, januszsz !

I have:

Alois Wiener / Antonie Wiener - Glas 1304 GT

Egon Wittig / Harald Gottlieb - Alfa Romeo 1300
Walter Pöltinger / Ernst Merinsky - VW 1500.


Tom

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Thank you Tom!
About Pöltinger I got results with that unknown Gerhard it was strange but I thought maybe brother or a cousin of famous Walter.
Regards
januszsz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RiN

This is what I have, but maybe it's wrong:
(And Brecheisen's first name too. Forgot to delete him from my file with missing names :-) )

19e Tulpenrallye, 27 april - 2 may 1967
1 Vic Elford – David Stone GB Porsche 911 S
2 Timo Makinen – Paul Easter SF/GB BMC Mini Cooper S
3 Rauno Aaltonen – Henry Liddon SF/GB BMC Mini Cooper S
4 Björn Waldegård – Lars Helmér S Porsche 911
5 Julien Vernaeve – Mike Wood B/GB BMC Mini Cooper S
6 Wilfried Gass – Gerd Frey D Porsche 911
7 David Friswell - Chris Nash GB Lotus Elan
8 Alfred Krause - Jean Brecheisen F Renault R8 Gordini 1300
9 Rob Slotemaker - Rob Gorris NL BMW 2000 Ti
10 Peter Harper - David Pollard GB Sunbeam Imp

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Hi Tom,
I have a little bit different

1 Vic Elford – David Stone GB Porsche 911 S
2 Timo Makinen – Paul Easter SF/GB BMC Mini Cooper S
3 Rauno Aaltonen – Henry Liddon SF/GB BMC Mini Cooper S
4 Björn Waldegård – Lars Helmér S Porsche 911
5 Julien Vernaeve – Mike Wood B/GB BMC Mini Cooper S
6 Wilfried Gass – Gerd Frey D Porsche 911
7 Rob Slotemaker - Rob Gorris NL BMW 2000 Ti
8 David Friswell - Chris Nash GB Lotus Elan
9 Dieter Lambart-Hans Vogt D Opel Rekord 1900
10 Jens Nielsen - O.W.Kristensen DK Volvo 122 S

what is right ?
Any help will be welcome !

Best regards
jorge

P.S. - By the way, does someone knows the complete name of O.W.Kristensen ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RiN

I have Stig Eriksson and Guido Haberthür.


Tom

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About the co-driver Stig Eriksson I have that the first letter of first name was one R.

Can You confirm me that it's in fact Stig Eriksson ?

Thanks
regards
jorge

Tulip 67 - but by Group rather than overall:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrally

About the co-driver Stig Eriksson I have that the first letter of first name was one R.

Can You confirm me that it's in fact Stig Eriksson ?

Thanks
regards
jorge

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No, I can't confirm it as a fact.
That's why I use the phrase 'What I have.....'.
I regret never going to the trouble of writing down my sources.
It would have been very useful these days.
If I find out, I'll let you know.


Tom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FAL

Tulip 67 - but by Group rather than overall:

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This is one of my main sources, too, the swedish annual MOTORÅRET.
My other main source for the Tulpen rallye is VIFTIG JAAR TULPENRALLYE 1949-1999.

Tom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RiN

This is one of my main sources, too, the swedish annual MOTORÅRET.
My other main source for the Tulpen rallye is VIFTIG JAAR TULPENRALLYE 1949-1999.

Tom

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Yes, but even that dutch book it's not conclusiv ! It's impossible to take the overall classification for that !
In the column of overall classification, Timo Makinen is first !

In the classification that FAL has published (I can't read the final times) it's possible to see the final times for example between Krause and Lambart ?
Maybe we can get some informations from there !

Best regards
jorge

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrally

Yes, but even that dutch book it's not conclusiv ! It's impossible to take the overall classification for that !
In the column of overall classification, Timo Makinen is first !

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Indeed, the book has some faults.
But, for the '67 rally they don't give overall results, just overall in each of two groups, A = Gr.1 & 2 cars (with Makinen first) and B = Gr.3 cars.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrally

In the classification that FAL has published (I can't read the final times) it's possible to see the final times for example between Krause and Lambart ?
Maybe we can get some informations from there !

Best regards
jorge

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The positions for each group are the same in the two books. What is difficult to see in the FAL's pic from MOTORÅRET is that the real overall position is given in brackets after the times.

Tom

:-http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/5...lly1967zs8.jpg
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/t...jpg/1/w267.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FAL

:-http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/5...lly1967zs8.jpg
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/t...jpg/1/w267.png

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It seems You have the correct one, Tom !

Thanks FAL !

Best regards
jorge

and from 1968 ?

DDR - K??? Nielsen-M??? Sorensen
DDR - Zdenek Treybal-P???? Teffek
DDR - Carl Syberg-J??? Iversen
DDR - Walter Roser-R??? Kec
DDR - Vaclav Bobek-H??? Bobek
DDR - Vic Dietmayer-L??? Hahn
Germany - Gunther Wallrabenstein-???? Aeckl
Germany - Eymann (Dieter?)-???? Strung
Danube - Vic Dietmayer-L??? Hahn
Danube - Carl Schindler-???? Schliska
Danube - Titus Maier-Kabic- T??? Kostenberger
Geneve - ???? Blank-???? Karrer
Geneve - ???? Cochet-???? Feuz
Geneve - Bob Wolleck-???? Delaunay
Geneve - Noel Labaune-???? Rodet
Geneve - Henri Greder-???? Mounier

Thanks in advance
best regards
jorge

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrally

It seems You have the correct one, Tom !

Thanks FAL !

Best regards
jorge

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Well, who knows.....:-)

That's what makes research both facinating and frustrating,
when you believe you have it sorted out, something different pops up.


Tom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RiN

Well, who knows.....:-)

That's what makes research both facinating and frustrating,
when you believe you have it sorted out, something different pops up.


Tom

---

Very, very true, Tom !

Now, I wonder where did I find that classification !

Regards
jorge

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrally

and from 1968 ?

DDR - Kenneth Gram Nielsen-M??? Sorensen

Thanks in advance
best regards
jorge

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This is the only name I can help you with.


Tom

Thanks Tom,
I already suspected it was the same person !

Best regards
jorge

Here's my blanks from the '66 season.
Again grateful for all help.


1966:

Fiori:
Sergio Bettoja - ?.... Bulla (Porsche)
Dieter Lambart - H.... Heinrich (Opel)

Austrian:
E.... Buchbauer - Geri Brandstetter (Renault)

Geneve:
Patrick Lier - ?.... Formige (Hillman)

Vlatava:
Zdenek Cechmanek - J.... Pelucha (Tatra)

Deutschland:
Joachim Springer - J.... Schey (BMW)
Paul Roeder - ?.... Schutz (NSU)
Hans Supper - ?.... Sutter (Glas)
R.... Lieb - ?.... Buhrich (Porsche)

3 Stadte:
M.... Fuss - A.... Wendlinger (Porsche)


Tom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RiN

Here's my blanks from the '66 season.
Again grateful for all help.


1966:

Fiori:
Sergio Bettoja - PAOLO Bulla (Porsche)
Vlatava:
Zdenek Cechmanek - JIRI Pelucha (Tatra)
Tom

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That's what I can add.
One suggestion more. I have a co-driver to Roeder (Deutschland) "Paul" - maybe I have the proper name to Schutz. Maybe not.
Regards
Janusz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jrally

and from 1968 ?

DDR - KENNETH GRAM Nielsen-M??? Sorensen
DDR - Zdenek Treybal-PETR Teffek

Germany - Gunther Wallrabenstein-???? Aeckl (I have "J. Säckl")
Germany - Eymann (Dieter?)-???? Strung (I have Dieter Eymann/Rainier Strunz)

jorge

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Here you have my contribution, Jo.
Regards
Janusz

For those with time to fill over the weekend,
another couple of years with som blanks.


1964:

Fiori:
V.... Bartolini - W.... Bartolini (Alfa Romeo)

Tulpen:
Kurt Pfnier - W.... Berns (DKW)

Austrian:
Ernst Benedikt - ?.... Herle (Volvo)

Geneve:
Jean-Pierre Meyer - J.... P.... Rutsch (Ford)



1965:

Fiori:
Gianpiero Raffa - ?.... del Monte (Lancia)
Enzo Martoni - ?.... Monti (Lancia)
Dino Morazzoni - ?.... Mona (Lancia)

Vltava:
J.... Vidner - J.... Vylit (Skoda)
Josef Chovanec - J.... Mohyla (Tatra)
Antonin Dolejs - M.... Poldauf (Skoda)


3 Stadte:
Sobieslaw Zasada - ???? (Steyr Puch)
Herbert Kohlweiss - ?.... Martolanz (Alfa Romeo)
Günther Schorn - H.... Pail (Steyr Puch)
H.... Füss - A.... Wendlinger (Porsche)

RAC:
Sten Lundin - ???? (VW)


Tom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RiN

For those with time to fill over the weekend,
another couple of years with som blanks.


1964:

Fiori:
VELIO Bartolini - WALTER Bartolini (Alfa Romeo)

Tulpen:
Kurt Pfnier - W.... Berns (DKW)

Austrian:
Ernst Benedikt - ?.... Herle (Volvo)

Geneve:
Jean-Pierre Meyer - J.... P.... Rutsch (Ford)



1965:

Fiori:
Gianpiero Raffa - ANGELO del Monte (Lancia)
Enzo Martoni - ?.... Monti (Lancia)
Dino Morazzoni - ?.... Mona (Lancia)

Vltava:
JOSEF Vidner - JAROSLAV Vylit (Skoda)
Josef Chovanec - J.... Mohyla (Tatra)
Antonin Dolejs - M.... Poldauf (Skoda)


3 Stadte:
Sobieslaw Zasada - KAZIMIERZ OSINSKI (Steyr Puch)
Herbert Kohlweiss - ?.... MartElanz (Alfa Romeo)
Günther Schorn - H.... Pail (Steyr Puch)
H.... Füss - A.... Wendlinger (Porsche)

RAC:
Sten Lundin - HAKAN LINDBERG (VW)


Tom

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That is what I can help. Hope my sources were good.
Regards
Janusz

Again, thanks januszsz!
Do you remember the source for the last one ?

Regards
Tom

Looking for answers I noticed some total "blanks" in my files. Maybe somebody can fill them.
1954
Sestriere
Heinrich Theden / ??

1955
Sestriere
Ken Wharton / ??

1956
RAC
Peter Harper / ??

1956
Iberico
Javier Sanglas / ??
Jose Luis Abreu / ??
Esteban Sala / ??
Gerardo de Andres / ??
Paul Ernst Strähle / ??
Carlos Faustino / ??
Francisco Peerira / ??
Carlos Mach / ??
Joao V. Azevedo / ??

1957
Adriatique
"Pegaso" / ??

1965
missing 6th-10th

1966
Alpenfahrt
Carl Christian Schindler / ??

1971
Routes du Nord
missing 4th-10th
Semperit
Carl Christian Schindler / ??
missing 7th
Georg Fischer / ??
Geneve
missing 4th-10th

1972
Pneumant
missing 5th-10th
Baltic
? Olsen / ??
Henning Christensen / ??
John Haugland / ??
Wilhelmsson / ??
Tour de Belgique
missing 4th-10th

Regards
Janusz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RiN

Again, thanks januszsz!
Do you remember the source for the last one ?

Regards
Tom

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I pressume you mean Hakan Lindberg as a co-driver to Lundin?
It was from "RAC Rally 1956-1981" an Unique Motor Books' booklet compiled of xerocopies from old British magazines. That one was from AUTOCAR, December 3rd 1965.
Regards
Janusz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by januszsz

Looking for answers I noticed some total "blanks" in my files. Maybe somebody can fill them.
1954
Sestriere
Heinrich Theden / Manfred Elmenhorst

1955
Sestriere
Ken Wharton / Gordon Shanley

1957
Adriatique
"Pegaso" / Campidoglio

1965
missing 6th-10th ????????

Regards
Janusz

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This is what I have.

Tom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by januszsz

I pressume you mean Hakan Lindberg as a co-driver to Lundin?
It was from "RAC Rally 1956-1981" an Unique Motor Books' booklet compiled of xerocopies from old British magazines. That one was from AUTOCAR, December 3rd 1965.
Regards
Janusz

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Fine!
I've been searching for this for years and obviously overlooked one of the usually good sources.

Tom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RiN

This is what I have.

Tom

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Thank you Tom.
Missing 1965 (6th-10th) was RACE.
regards
janusz