Was Lewis passing Heikki legal?

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Originally Posted by ioan

He must be feeling bad having to let Lewis by in 2 consecutive races. But after all he is Ron's reconstructed 2nd hand driver, without McLaren in his blood!

I loved the images with Ron "Integrity" pushing the radio buttons just moments before it all happened!
It was priceless! :D

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Ron: Heikki - Let theGolden Boy through, let the Golden Boy through :D

It wasn`t team order at silverstone, in my view. It was at hockhenheim though, that was obvious to everyone.

The real question we should be asking is - what the hell is Kovalainen doing being so slow in the currently best car of the field? His pace has been an absolute joke.
McLaren did the right thing to tell him to get the hell out of Hamiltons way

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Ron: Heikki - Let theGolden Boy through, let the Golden Boy through :D

It wasn`t team order at silverstone, in my view. It was at hockhenheim though, that was obvious to everyone.

The real question we should be asking is - what the hell is Kovalainen doing being so slow in the currently best car of the field? His pace has been an absolute joke.
McLaren did the right thing to tell him to get the hell out of Hamiltons way

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Is it Hamilton just faster? Is it Kova too slow or..... is it that their cars are "different"? :)

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Originally Posted by mstillhere

Is it Hamilton just faster? Is it Kova too slow or..... is it that their cars are "different"? :)

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I think that Hamilton has demonstrated his speed time and time again.

IF you think that Ron hired Fernando to handicap him against a (then) rookie and

IF you think that Ron decided that he will only have one car going as fast as it possibly can and

IF you think that HK would do just as well as Lewis if nasty Ron would just let him drive as fast as he wanted

THEN the new X Files film is out. Can you review it for me please and post your opinion in the special matter transferance portal cunningly marked "Trash". :D

I just love the conspiracy theories surrounding F1.

We know MS was #1 at Ferrari but does anyone believe for a second that Ferrari would not have given Rubins the fastest possible car to support him. After all, they only had to tell him to stop for a cuppa if they they wanted MS to win.

Similarly with McLaren, occassionally Hekki shows strong and gets the maximum out of the car but most the time he's noticibly slower. Last week it was 1/2 a sec a lap and there was nobody going to stop Lewis. If he had of tried, he would have lost time to the people following and might have taken himself out of the race.

Only difference between the MS and Lewis situation is that we see Hekki and Lewis battleing when Hekki has the speed.

As we saw with Massa and Jnr, he was going past no matter what.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

I think that Hamilton has demonstrated his speed time and time again.

IF you think that Ron hired Fernando to handicap him against a (then) rookie and

IF you think that Ron decided that he will only have one car going as fast as it possibly can and

IF you think that HK would do just as well as Lewis if nasty Ron would just let him drive as fast as he wanted

THEN the new X Files film is out. Can you review it for me please and post your opinion in the special matter transferance portal cunningly marked "Trash". :D

I just love the conspiracy theories surrounding F1.

We know MS was #1 at Ferrari but does anyone believe for a second that Ferrari would not have given Rubins the fastest possible car to support him. After all, they only had to tell him to stop for a cuppa if they they wanted MS to win.

Similarly with McLaren, occassionally Hekki shows strong and gets the maximum out of the car but most the time he's noticibly slower. Last week it was 1/2 a sec a lap and there was nobody going to stop Lewis. If he had of tried, he would have lost time to the people following and might have taken himself out of the race.

Only difference between the MS and Lewis situation is that we see Hekki and Lewis battleing when Hekki has the speed.

As we saw with Massa and Jnr, he was going past no matter what.

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So, based on what the McLaren's fans are saying, (Lewis naturally faster than Kovi) I don't expect Kovi to be kept next year, since based on his performance (6th?) a McLAren on him is totally wasted.
Although, according to this article:http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=43482 McLAren itself agrees that Kovi has been...hum...negletted. My guess would be to stop Kovi from competing with Lewis. And that's coming from McLaren themselves saying again that the team needs to be closer to Kovi.

"McLaren’s F1 CEO Martin Whitmarsh says the team needs to work closely with Heikki Kovalainen to help him exploit his full potential and reach the same performance level as team-mate Lewis Hamilton"

http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=43482

Funny, because a few months ago....

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66085

"McLaren have rebuilt Heikki Kovalainen's confidence and turned him into a Formula One driver who can push teammate Lewis Hamilton all the way this season, according to Ron Dennis.

"Heikki is a guy who was systematically taken apart last year and we have systematically put him back together again," the McLaren boss told Britain's Daily Telegraph newspaper on Tuesday."

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Originally Posted by tamburello

"McLaren’s F1 CEO Martin Whitmarsh says the team needs to work closely with Heikki Kovalainen to help him exploit his full potential and reach the same performance level as team-mate Lewis Hamilton"

http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=43482

Funny, because a few months ago....

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66085

"McLaren have rebuilt Heikki Kovalainen's confidence and turned him into a Formula One driver who can push teammate Lewis Hamilton all the way this season, according to Ron Dennis.

"Heikki is a guy who was systematically taken apart last year and we have systematically put him back together again," the McLaren boss told Britain's Daily Telegraph newspaper on Tuesday."

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Damn internet!!!!!!!!! :)

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Originally Posted by tamburello

"McLaren’s F1 CEO Martin Whitmarsh says the team needs to work closely with Heikki Kovalainen to help him exploit his full potential and reach the same performance level as team-mate Lewis Hamilton"

http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=43482

Funny, because a few months ago....

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66085

"McLaren have rebuilt Heikki Kovalainen's confidence and turned him into a Formula One driver who can push teammate Lewis Hamilton all the way this season, according to Ron Dennis.

"Heikki is a guy who was systematically taken apart last year and we have systematically put him back together again," the McLaren boss told Britain's Daily Telegraph newspaper on Tuesday."

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The typical McLaren bull$hit, also known as Ronspeak.

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Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

Whether it's McLaren, Ferrari or BMW, if one of the team drivers has shown the field his backside all day, and the other is not on his pace, I would expect the lead driver to NOT make it a time consuming exercise for the faster car to get past him. No matter the team, I don't have a problem with that.

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http://www.grandprix.com/gpe/rr420.html

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At the same time Alboreto stopped with a gearbox problem and so second place was suddenly in the hands of Jacques Laffite's Ligier. Rosberg pitted again for new tires but was still well ahead. Laffite realized that there was no way he could catch Keke and backed off but his team mate Streiff came charging up. Laffite thought he was a lap behind and Streiff thought that he was under pressure from Capelli (who was actually a lap behind) and as a result the two Ligiers contrived to collide. Laffite's car was largely undamaged but Streiff's lost its right front wheel. Undeterred by this Streiff decided to drive it the one lap to the finish line, which he succeeded in doing. Capelli was fourth with Johansson fifth and Berger sixth.

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Hekki should not have moved over. He should have caused as much trouble for Lewis as possible, so that hopefully, both cars would have been damaged and at best, not finished the race. Then and only then would no-one accuse them of having team orders.

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Originally Posted by ioan

:rolleyes:

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Oh sure, roll your eyes. Here I am trying to help you X-Filers out and that's the thanks I get! That's how Dennis communicated the team orders to Heikki. The little green men travel in a different dimension. Only the McLaren team can see them. And they run real fast. Ron gave them the word. They ran out onto the track and jumped on top of Heikki's car and screamed "Now Heikki! NOW!!!". Did you notice how suddenly he moved out of the way? Well, if a little green man had his junk pushed up in the visor of your helmet, yelling at you, I bet you'd make a sudden move too.

I've switched sides. I'm with you guys now. Dirty rotten, cheating cheaters! Green men lovers!!! Stay strong. We know what happened, don't we?

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Originally Posted by Rollo

Hekki should not have moved over. He should have caused as much trouble for Lewis as possible, so that hopefully, both cars would have been damaged and at best, not finished the race. Then and only then would no-one accuse them of having team orders.

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I'm with you. This is the most exciting F1 season that I can remember, in 35+ years of following the sport. This was a great race with great action. And some of this lot will nitpick something to death... claiming that they KNOW what the FIA doesn't.

I like Kimi. Massa not so much. Heikki seems a good lad too. And of course, I'm pulling for Lewis. But if Kimi had let Massa by under the same circumstances, ya know what... short of proof (not "I saw THIS, therefore I know THAT"), I'd let it go and look forward to the next contest.... hoping that it would be the barnburner that this one was.

But you could turn a mouse loose in a rest home, and the old ladies there wouldn't make as much noise as some of these people. There's a moose in the hoose!!! :D

It's a lesson DP and Marco Andretti should learn, what should you do for your team when your teammate is faster, tangle with each other?

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Originally Posted by tamburello

Malaysia 1999. One more time than Hakkinen, for example, ever did.



No good reason? Being the Number 1 in the team & wanting to win is not a good reason? Seems perfectly acceptable to me.



Well, that's because Ferrari had a distinct policy of basing their championship hopes around the one man who they knew could deliver.

Not taking advantage of that situation would have been professionally reckless.

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But Mika didn't have benefit of full on team orders.

I'm not saying have a numebr 1 driver etc is unsuccessful. I'm just saying F1 is a team sport and an individual sport. When you have a number one to that extent, your going against the very principles of sport.

Sport is about competing, your main competitor is your team-mate, MS and Ferrari denied us of that - in that respect its not at all sporting.

I no not taking advantage of it would be silly if that was their policy, I'm merely pointing out its an incredibly unsporting policy to take on in what is still at the end of the day a sport!

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Originally Posted by markabilly

Quite correct; however, RD was saying again, right before this race that it was team equality, no team orders,..yyayadda....if you do want a link, then go check out autosport.....

Before the season began Rd made it clear that Lewis was number one, then later still tries to say, team equality....now RD is praising HK for being quite a competitor :eek:

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Can you give me a link of when RD said at beginning of season Lewis is number 1? I've never heard that before.

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Originally Posted by mstillhere

That McLaren are desperate and would do anything to win is proven by what they did last year. I am sure we can agree on that. That McLaren specifically said to Kova: "Hey Kova let Lewis get by now otherwise no refuel for you" is also not proven. However, that McLAren has said something in that vein: "Hey Kova, guess what? Lewis is way faster than you and.....he is right behind you" RD himself and his engineers said that that happened. Actually from one of their interviews it transpires that Kova was not too happy about that "guess what" message. Now it's a matter for you to connect the dots. If you want to of course. As far as I am concerned we don't get to establish the rules. The rules are rules. And it does not matter if Lewis is faster, if it's the very last lap, and so on. But you know..let me do this...I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU. How's that? Just remember though, since what goes around comes around, don't flip flop when it's going to be Ferrari doing the same thing, ok? Although Although for some people what Ferrari does is always not right because....hum.....whatever,,,,right.....
PS Hey, you heard? Hamilton's car is being inspected by the FIA. Coincidence?

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But your forgetten, Ferrari have done the same thing, Brazil last year, and that decided the title. And no one complained.

Majority of real mature F1 fans don’t mind team orders when done reasonably. They understand it’s a team sport as well as an individual sport. But the individual aspect (i.e drivers championship) must be respected, and given an equal shot from the word go.

I think it’s a safe bet to say Ferrari (post MS) and McLaren have got the right approach when it comes to team orders.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Heiki said afterward that he was unhappy because they didn't let him fight, still people say it wasn't an order from the team! :rolleyes:

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Come someone give me a source of Heikki complaining about this?

I've heard this several times, and despite being a daily F1 website user, I aint seen this article.

Also, I can comfirm 100% the team did not tell Heikki to move over. Because thats breaking the rules. They let him know of the situation, and he acted upon it on how the team works.

If people are against this particular move - whats your response to Heidfeld letting Kubica past at Canada?

That actually did change the result of the race!

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Originally Posted by ioan

Oh Ron "integrity" Dennis can't stop making himself look like an idiot.

I saw that article yesterday on autosport.com, I decided however not to bring it up myself.

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If its the article I think your on about (maybe post a link when your refering to an article :) ).

Ron was purely answering questions about what Jackie Stewart said (he reckons Heikki should be Lewis No.2). Ron was merely saying no he is not.

And he is, if Heikki was faster than lewis, do you honestly believe he'd have been told to let him past?

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Originally Posted by mstillhere

So, based on what the McLaren's fans are saying, (Lewis naturally faster than Kovi) I don't expect Kovi to be kept next year, since based on his performance (6th?) a McLAren on him is totally wasted.
Although, according to this article:http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=43482 McLAren itself agrees that Kovi has been...hum...negletted. My guess would be to stop Kovi from competing with Lewis. And that's coming from McLaren themselves saying again that the team needs to be closer to Kovi.

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Actually, if you read the article, it says no such thing.

Martin says that Hekki is a fast driver that is not realising his potential. They will work with him to ensure he does.

Can't read anything in there that says they are ... ummm... neglegting him ;)

Heikki's raw pace has been questioned here.

I personally think he has some psychological problems (like Hamilton had). Recall Hockenheim qualifying. He was making mistakes on almost every flying lap. HK in some way may seem like a "softer" character, who needs 100% team support and confidence to fulfill his full potential. He may feel he hasn't deserved the McLaren drive 100%, but got it more due to circumstances (there were rumours like McL was more interested in some other guys). He may think something like "I really need to push hard and prove that I'm worthy of McLaren drive", instead of which the attitude should me more like "I know I'm good - I just drive my race and results will come". Such transition has to be found.

At the start of 2007 Kovalainen was quite erratic too as the expectations were high. He found his form in the second half of 2007 and remember - at the start of 2008 season he was quite quick too by managing to outqualify Hamilton on a couple of occasions and in races was closer to LH than he is now. But after the wave of unluck he has lost pace. It's strange because he should be more adapted to the car than he was at the start of the season. Something doesn't seem right to me here and hence I think Heikki is more capable than what he is showing at the moment.

In the last races Hamilton has seemed free of psychological pressure. It has seemed like he has really enjoyed playing with the field by destroying them and inferior strategies and critical situations (Germany) have actually given him an extra boost of confidence to show his superiority. This is something Heikki has to reach.

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Originally Posted by jens

Heikki's raw pace has been questioned here.

I personally think he has some psychological problems (like Hamilton had). Recall Hockenheim qualifying. He was making mistakes on almost every flying lap. HK in some way may seem like a "softer" character, who needs 100% team support and confidence to fulfill his full potential. He may feel he hasn't deserved the McLaren drive 100%, but got it more due to circumstances (there were rumours like McL was more interested in some other guys). He may think something like "I really need to push hard and prove that I'm worthy of McLaren drive", instead of which the attitude should me more like "I know I'm good - I just drive my race and results will come". Such transition has to be found.

At the start of 2007 Kovalainen was quite erratic too as the expectations were high. He found his form in the second half of 2007 and remember - at the start of 2008 season he was quite quick too by managing to outqualify Hamilton on a couple of occasions and in races was closer to LH than he is now. But after the wave of unluck he has lost pace. It's strange because he should be more adapted to the car than he was at the start of the season. Something doesn't seem right to me here and hence I think Heikki is more capable than what he is showing at the moment.

In the last races Hamilton has seemed free of psychological pressure. It has seemed like he has really enjoyed playing with the field by destroying them and inferior strategies and critical situations (Germany) have actually given him an extra boost of confidence to show his superiority. This is something Heikki has to reach.

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Couldn't agree with you more.

I like Hekki and the 2 drivers seem to Gel well together.

We know Hekki is quick but he's had a bit of bad luck for a couple of races and it's got to him.

Lewis is, as you say, riding the crest of the wave at the moment and Hekki is struggleing. A lot of this is mindset IMHO. Lewis has found a groove where he just seems to get faster the less he tries where Hekki is going slower the more effort he puts in.

For sure, the McLaren is a car that lends itself to a quick driver on the edge but overdrive it, and it doesn't respond well. It's a real drivers car and a pilot that has confidence in it will excell.

Take Germany. Hekki needed to have more downforce on the front to have confidence to pull it round where Lewis was confident that it would turn in and hold speed and any under / oversteer could be corrected by the driver.

That's fine on a qualifying lap but Hekki needs to have the confidence to translate into the race.

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Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

Oh sure, roll your eyes. Here I am trying to help you X-Filers out and that's the thanks I get! That's how Dennis communicated the team orders to Heikki. The little green men travel in a different dimension. Only the McLaren team can see them. And they run real fast. Ron gave them the word. They ran out onto the track and jumped on top of Heikki's car and screamed "Now Heikki! NOW!!!". Did you notice how suddenly he moved out of the way? Well, if a little green man had his junk pushed up in the visor of your helmet, yelling at you, I bet you'd make a sudden move too.

I've switched sides. I'm with you guys now. Dirty rotten, cheating cheaters! Green men lovers!!! Stay strong. We know what happened, don't we?

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:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

Come someone give me a source of Heikki complaining about this?

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Finnish member posted this after Heikki's interview on Finnish broadcaster.
His post is on the very first page of this thread, still most people are willing to ignore what Heikki said and say they are no proofs!
Hypocrites!

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Originally Posted by ioan

Finnish member posted this after Heikki's interview on Finnish broadcaster.
His post is on the very first page of this thread, still most people are willing to ignore what Heikki said and say they are no proofs!
Hypocrites!

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Opinion or fact :p :

Is there a quote or transcript or is it rumour.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Actually, if you read the article, it says no such thing.

Martin says that Hekki is a fast driver that is not realising his potential. They will work with him to ensure he does.

Can't read anything in there that says they are ... ummm... neglegting him ;)

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You know, I thought exactly the same thing. 'Neglecting' is the wrong adjective.

My point was that, not so long ago, Mclaren were praising themselves for having 'rebuilt' Kovalianen.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Finnish member posted this after Heikki's interview on Finnish broadcaster.
His post is on the very first page of this thread, still most people are willing to ignore what Heikki said and say they are no proofs!
Hypocrites!

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I've looked through the first page, and I couldn't find a link.

Will you find this link and post it please?

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

I've looked through the first page, and I couldn't find a link.

Will you find this link and post it please?

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Maybe you can post a link to a live interview that happened 9 days ago on a Finnish TV broadcast. If uyou can then please do so, if you can't please stop talking nonsense.

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

Also, I can comfirm 100% the team did not tell Heikki to move over. Because thats breaking the rules.

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McLaren breaking the rules? I have never heard of such thing!! :) :) :) :)

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Actually, if you read the article, it says no such thing.

Martin says that Hekki is a fast driver that is not realising his potential. They will work with him to ensure he does.

Can't read anything in there that says they are ... ummm... neglegting him ;)

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Reading about it? It's rigth in front of your eyes! Being 6th (6th with a car like that!!) and only seeing Lewis going 1.3 seconds faster than Ferrari while Kovi, with the exact same car, RIGHT? seems he's driving a mule, I think there is some thing huge here that you don't see only because you CHOOSE not to see it. If you don't call negletting him what do you call it? Oh wait...I got it..it's Kovi not having discovered the full potential of the car although only a couple of weeks ago it was Kovi that was doing much better than Lewis in both qualifing and the race. Now, all of the sudden, Kovi does not know the car. Hum....Sherlock, Sherlock.........

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Originally Posted by ioan

Maybe you can post a link to a live interview that happened 9 days ago on a Finnish TV broadcast. If uyou can then please do so, if you can't please stop talking nonsense.

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All due respect, you posted "Finnish member posted this after Heikki's interview on Finnish broadcaster. His post is on the very first page of this thread".

That does imply the person had posted a link. I apologise if I misunderstood your post.

But back to argument, I can't help but feel if he had said this, websites (not Planet-F1.com etc, but respectable ones) would have picked up on this. They haven't -so find it hard to believe.

Sorry.

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Originally Posted by mstillhere

McLaren breaking the rules? I have never heard of such thing!! :) :) :) :)

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I'm not saying they've never broken the rules. But I'm saying if they had made a direct order, they'd have been caught through radio communication, and punished.

They ain't been punished, so must not have told him to move over. Just let him know of the situation, as Ron Dennis said in link you posted earlier in this topic :)

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Originally Posted by mstillhere

Reading about it? It's rigth in front of your eyes! Being 6th (6th with a car like that!!) and only seeing Lewis going 1.3 seconds faster than Ferrari while Kovi, with the exact same car, RIGHT? seems he's driving a mule, I think there is some thing huge here that you don't see only because you CHOOSE not to see it. If you don't call negletting him what do you call it? Oh wait...I got it..it's Kovi not having discovered the full potential of the car although only a couple of weeks ago it was Kovi that was doing much better than Lewis in both qualifing and the race. Now, all of the sudden, Kovi does not know the car. Hum....Sherlock, Sherlock.........

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Erm....Heikki was better than Lewis at the British GP in the race?

With comments like that, how do you expect anyone to take your opinion seriously?

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

But back to argument, I can't help but feel if he had said this, websites (not Planet-F1.com etc, but respectable ones) would have picked up on this. They haven't -so find it hard to believe.

Sorry.

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Web sites, even respectable ones, very very rarely provide transcripts of the drivers comments from Finnish broadcasters, might be because the journos don't speak Finnish.

However we have often got information through the Finnish forum members, information that was coming from the Finnish media, and in 99.99% of the cases it proved to be correct.

I'm sorry too, because you seem a reasonable forumer, still you dismiss what other members posted just because the anglophone media didn't pick it up because obvious language shortcomings.

When you post something on the basis of what a forum member thinks they've heard, then fail to provide any evidence, you must understand if some people are sceptical.

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

Erm....Heikki was better than Lewis at the British GP in the race?

With comments like that, how do you expect anyone to take your opinion seriously?

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Please don't take my "a couple of weeks ago" too literally. I was referring to the beginning of the championship. And please don't make me go to cut and paste the info from the FIA web site and post it here to support what I am saying. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Web sites, even respectable ones, very very rarely provide transcripts of the drivers comments from Finnish broadcasters, might be because the journos don't speak Finnish.

However we have often got information through the Finnish forum members, information that was coming from the Finnish media, and in 99.99% of the cases it proved to be correct.

I'm sorry too, because you seem a reasonable forumer, still you dismiss what other members posted just because the anglophone media didn't pick it up because obvious language shortcomings.

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Don't pay attention Ion. These are the same people who say that the rumors about Ferrari wanting to make an all Italian team is true altough they don't have a shred of a web site to support their claim. As I mentioned their specialty is in flip flopping.

Yes it was illegal ,a la Schumacher-Barrichello a first class style

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

When you post something on the basis of what a forum member thinks they've heard...

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I think you are pushing it too far now, I wasn't expecting you to say such things about fellow forum members. :down:

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Originally Posted by mstillhere

Don't pay attention Ion. These are the same people who say that the rumors about Ferrari wanting to make an all Italian team is true altough they don't have a shred of a web site to support their claim. As I mentioned their specialty is in flip flopping.

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You're right, double standards are the standard around here, since ever.

If it's Ferrari it's bad, if it's McLaren it's the best thing to be done.
If it's Max than he should be thrown out, if it's Bernie then it business like always.

And so on and so forth.

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

I'm not saying they've never broken the rules. But I'm saying if they had made a direct order, they'd have been caught through radio communication, and punished.

They ain't been punished, so must not have told him to move over. Just let him know of the situation, as Ron Dennis said in link you posted earlier in this topic :)

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Exactly. There has apparently been no proof of wrongdoing presented to, or found by the FIA. And without proof, all you have are these armchair FIA delegates and team managers (some wearing tinfoil hats) claiming that they KNOW what happened.

As for this supposed "proof", if Kovalainen had made some sort of damning statements during an interview (in Finnish or not), who with the slightest amount of common sense would believe that the FIA wouldn't have been all over that like a cheap suit?

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Originally Posted by ioan

What if HK kept Hmilton behind himself long enough to deny him the chance to catch Piquet?!

There are plenty of questions to be answered, and plenty of scenarios to come up with.

In the end, I'm all for team orders.
However I'm against hypocrisy!

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Originally Posted by Robinho

i'll try to keep it short, it seems the problem is not that order, but the fact that "McLaren fans" have defended the move(apparently thats what everyone who disagrees with "Ferrari fans" must be, i'll also take "Hypocrites" instead of Mac fans ;) )

the way i see it, there is a rule against team orders, and that came around as a direct response to Austria 2002 where the result was switched to no net benefit of the team. The rule may be worded poorly, but the intention IMO is to prevent teams from switching their drivers as they see fit to gain a couple of points for one driver to the detriment of the other, especially at the point in a year when the points made little difference.

it appears there was certainly at least a request for Heikki to let a faster Lewis past, however it was clear that Lewis should not have been behind Heikki, that he was clearly the faster driver on the day. had they not made that request Lewis may not have got past, or not in time to catch and pass the other 2. If Heikki had been on a pace to catch and pass the leaders then this is a different story, but releasing the faster of the 2 cars happens somewhere in the field in most races, especially when they are on different strategies, or when the net result is a gain for the team - i don't see threads all over the place calling rule breakages for those - a little Hypocritical no?

it seems pretty reasonable to suggest that if Heikki had not moved over (ordered or not) then McLaren would have had a worse result than they finally acheived. this is clearly not in contravention to the spirit of the team order rules, presumabley the other teams (Ferrari and Renault who were directly affected) think the same as they are not protesting, the FIA have not seen fit to investigate. i would also expect any other team to do pretty much the same, and also for no-one to bat an eyelid.

if we are going to get excited about this now, start bandying around "hypocrites" and double standards, then perhaps we should start with Brazil last year, where a faster Massa moved over to let Kimi past - not net gain in the result for the team, but a gain for the driver? however there is no reason to, it was a perfectly reasonable call given the circumstances. if we are going to examine every decision to the veryt leter of the regulations then there is no point in watching, every situation has its own unique set of motives, circumstances and outcomes - F1 is never going to be black and white, particularly when looking at sporting regs rather than technical ones.

if there was a clear rule breach there would be something being done, all there actually is are a few people who like an opportunity to play the downtrodden and imagine what the outcome may have been if the situation were reversed, based on an assumpition of peoples motives in a quite different set of circumstances several years ago, yet it is the "McLaren fans" who are apparently losing credibility. isn't it time for common sense to prevail?

if you disagree with the move then fine, and i'd hope you'd do the same regardless of the teams involved. if you think this is a situation that would be perfectly reaosnable and to be expected regardless of the team then fine.

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Quite amazing assumptions. Let's look at the facts. Hamilton catches and passes HK with ease, then catches and passes Massa with ease, to then catch and pass Jr with ease to take the win. And all the wile HK looses ground to the top three.

Where's the conspiracy. How would Lewis have been held up by HK when the clearly faster Massa couldn't hold Lewis behind at all? And to top it all off no one has any quotes, articles, press releases, video's, etc reporting that mclaren told HK to move over.

Label me as you like, but I sure one could use this thread as evidence to support the existance of message board "witch-hunts". ;) Keep digging, there's nothing there!

Move on!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tamburello

You know, I thought exactly the same thing. 'Neglecting' is the wrong adjective.

My point was that, not so long ago, Mclaren were praising themselves for having 'rebuilt' Kovalianen.

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Is "neglecting" really an adjective?