Oh, I don't know....in their day, Zanardi was much like Castroneves is today. For younger ones, there's Marco and Graham Rahal. And Danica certainly isn't a bad one to promote. There's interest in her.
Printable View
Oh, I don't know....in their day, Zanardi was much like Castroneves is today. For younger ones, there's Marco and Graham Rahal. And Danica certainly isn't a bad one to promote. There's interest in her.
Promoting drivers for their personality and driving skills, rather than their appearance in a bikini or dance shoes perhaps.?Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
Problem is, they need to start promoting both. Maybe now the series can concentrate on promoting the series rather than proving they are the better open wheel series they will.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelred5
On the personailty front, I think you have it correct in regards to Mrs. Bikini. But in regards to Mr. Dancin' Shoes, how much MORE personality do you want? My wife was/is a big fan of the DWTS show, so I saw him every week. You could not have asked for a better ambassador for the sport than Helio. Once the season starts, the ICS/IRL needs to do a few commercials in the DWTS time slot so they can capitalize on the interest he generated.
Gary
P.S. I notice Mrs. Bikini is gonna be on Oprah's new show this Sunday. Let's see if she can match Mr. Dancin' Shoes for the smile and warm fuzzy factor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
Helio isn't nearly as aggressive as Zanardi was in open wheel. Zanardi has a big set of them racing jewels!!
Gary, we're back to agreein'. Of the 44 photos of Danica at SI.com in the swimsuit deal, only one of them has her smiling and that one looks very pretty. But only ONE.
That said, the "bikini and dance shoes" are different, off-track factors that have called a great deal of attention to the sport.
As far as Helio being as aggressive as Zanardi, I'd call that one a draw. Helio sticks his nose in as much as anybody when it comes to wheel-to-wheel stuff and you don't win two Indianapolis 500s by being a shrinking violet.
i suggest you go back on watch some CART races from the mid to late 90's .....Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken
Yeah, Ken, I have to agree. While Helio is no shrinking violet, he is by no means on the same page as Alex was.
Gary
I've seen those races.....and I've seen Helio at places like Texas......not much difference there. Alex invented the victory spin, Helio invented climbing the fence. Both were copied by NASCAR drivers, as a matter of fact.
yep....Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
I'm not doggin Helio...and to be honest I was never a fan of Zanardi during his CART days (although he is one of my heros since his accident)...he was in fact one of the drivers I cheered against...
and Helio is a heck of a racecar driver...
but as aggressive as Zanardi?....not by even half!
Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
I suspect our definition of 'aggressive' is different...
Probably so, Ken......different styles, to be sure. And Gary, no question Zanardi was/is a great statesman for the sport and coming back after that horrible accident the way he did to compete again was spectacular.
IC,
When I said they were not on the same page, I was thinking only about their relative on-track styles. I wasn't even thinking about their off track personas. Except for the accident and recovery, to be honest, I would have to rate the two of them as pretty equal in terms of their "statesmanship". They both do a bang up job (no pun intended) in front of a camera or throng of fans.
Gary
Understand, Gary....as I said, think the styles were/are different and maybe I'm thinking of aggressive as the wrong term. Zanardi was pretty much aggressive all the time, like Tracy or Michael Andretti or Mario. Helio is aggressive at the end of races and/or in traffic on ovals. And I agree....both are great for our sport.
and i was only referring the 'Aggressiveness' on track
personnally I have always felt "the Pass" was bunk....and set the tone for the next couple of seasons....where Zanardi ran rampant...he made some questionable passes IMO....and played on his reputation...CART allowed him some leway and IMO encouraged it because he WAS good for the sport....but Ultimatly he was repremanded at a canadien race (can't rememberif it was Vancouver or Toronto)
we have all seen Helio go 'wheel to wheel'...and run fast and smooth.....but 'aggressive'?...naw, not like Zanardi did during his Championship seasons
Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
Ah there you go, agreeing again. Jeesh.... :s mokin:
Gary
Ken, maybe you're right and I didn't watch Zanardi closely enough....still wish we'd gotten to see him run Indy.....but I just didn't put him in an aggressive class with a Tracy or Mario.
Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
You should. All cut from the same cloth.
Gary
dittoQuote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
and Moore....
anyone else remember him 'Shutting the door' going into turn 1 at Rio?
Yes, I DO remember that one.....and I'll defer to you guys because you obviously watched Zanardi closer than I did.
If the recent trend is any indication I do not believe that Indycar drivers are striving to get to F1. If anything they will try to move up to NASCAR. Even, F1 drivers are intrigued by NASCAR not the other way around. Formula One is a place where only 2 teams have any shot at winninig the races are pretty much parades with little passing and are really boring to watch. They aren't the greatest drivers in the world because they only race on one type of course...road courses. The one street race circuit they have allows for very little passing because the width of Monaco is so narrow. As much as I hate to say it NASCAR is where most driver want to race read the post from Aussie V8, F1 champions in NASCAR and Indy Champions in NASCAR. I lose a lot of respect for F1 in the way that it treated the American fans at Indy ...who cares about thef-1 parade!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezhop7
Make that 3 teams this year the BMW Sauber team is looking pretty strong.
Gary
And don't forget Zanardi popularized NASCAR's biggest way to celebrate. The dough-nut !!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken
Michael always wanted to know where Zanardi was at.Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
First: Two formula one drivers moved to NASCAR when their formula one adventure was over, Neither Villeneuve nor Montoya had any chance to get a competetive car in f1 anymore...Quote:
Originally Posted by ezhop7
You can't say, they aren't the greatest drivers because of the tracks and the number of teams winning races or the less passing... Thats a joke, because it's not the driver's fault.
Racing is a a business. The best teams want the best drivers. Drivers want to drive the most competetive car and want to earn money. So the best drivers of the world will always be there where the money is. For U.S-Americans that's NASCAR for the rest of the world it's formula one.
By the way: You can't ignore the reputation a formula one world championship has.
Do you think drivers like Kanaan, Castroneves, Dixon, Briscoe, Wheldon an so on would be in ICS if they had a chance of driving in f1? They all went to america because the doors in europe were closed. There were times, when Indy was the second choice. But these times are over. If they can't race f1 anymore, they look for NASCAR, DTM, Sportscars before they think about Indy. That's the way it is!
Exactly. At least 90% of young racers from all over the world dream of driving an F1 car. The rest are young Americans hoping to be the next Dale Earnhardt or Jeff Gordon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiderman
Boy, you are so wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by ezhop7
LuguiStone and Spiderman go ask Montoya and Speed why they did not stay in F-1 and jacque could have stay in F-1 too. Seems to me that both Speed and Montoya still have lots of drive left in the tank. Maybe the scene in europe is just to much to take if you don't run with Ferrari or Mclaren, hmm you'll be a backmarker. Seems to me that you answered your question about Kaanan and Wheldon...they be in NASCAR before the high class F1 owners hire either of them. The best drivers are not in F1...most of the rides beside the top 4 teams are all money bought rides. Sato, Force India, Jensen Button, Mark Webber, and the rest I can't even pronounce are not the best driver in the world.
OK, live in denial all you want.
Emerson Fittipaldi came out of retirement after an F1 career and went Indy car racing, won two Indianapolis 500s, and enjoyed himself a lot more than he did in F1. He excelled in both. So did Mansell. EVERYONE who has come out of F1 to Indy cars has not done this. Mario Andretti came out of sprint cars to win an F1 title. But everyone who has gone from Indy cars to F1 has not done well, either (or had competitive rides, I might add). There is no way to categorize EITHER as the BEST drivers because of the series they happen to be in......or Steve Kinser or John Force or Jeff Gordon, for that matter.
Speed and Villeneuve (in the case of villeneuve it's hard to say) were fired, nobody wanted them anymore. Montoya was sure out of McLaren. Maybe he could heve been drive for a backmaker-team, but Montoya doesn't want to lose...Quote:
Originally Posted by ezhop7
Most of f1 backmakers have won championships in other forms of racing before, as most the front runners did.
There a realy good racers in f1.
The question to you: Why drivers woho couldn't get a ride in f1 don't go to IndyCars, but to NASCAR, Sportscars, DTM and so on...
Why IndyChamps are leaving for NASCAR?
Ind if you couldn't pronounce the names that might have something to do with your nationalitiy. English speaking people are a little lazy and arrogant when it comes to foreign languages...
I don't remember someone who did better in f1 than in IndyCars... The other way around, i know a lot of drivers...Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
Having a competitive car is not relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
Ayrton Senna, Alain Prost, Michael Schumacher, Kimi Raikkonen and Fernando Alonso did not have competitive machinery when they made their debuts in F1 with little or no experience of cars of a similar performance level. Kimi came straight from Formula Renault, which isn't even on the same level as Barber-Dodge, into the Sauber F1 team
What they, and other F1 big-names have done, is make an impression in a car that should have prevented them from doing so.
As an example, it wasn't a lack of a 'competitive' car that got Zanardi the boot from Williams...it was being crap compared to Ralf Schumacher in the same car that got him the boot. Zero points in a Williams is pathetic.
The lack of a competitive car is a poor excuse for not performing and has no place in Formula One.
Well, I've never seen anyone come close to winning an F1 race in a lousy car.
In the lousy car zanardi scored 0 points with, Ralf Schumacher did some podiums.Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
In the lousy car andretti failed, Senna won 5 races...
And in the end: Damon Hill nearly won the 1997 hungarian grand prix in an arrows...
Or Jenson Button when he won 2006 in hungary with the Honda.
It wasn't suggested they WON in a lousy car, only that they impressed enough to get a drive in a decent one...Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
But now that you mention it...
- 1998 Belgian GP : Damon Hill won in a Jordan. Jordan was NEVER a top team, they were midfielders at best.
1999, when Herbert won in a stewart at the nurburgringQuote:
Originally Posted by JSH
or 2003 fisichellas victory in interlagos in a jordan
My point is how can someone say that F1 drivers are the best in the world when they do not race on all of the different type of pavement circuits. Michael Schumacher is a great driver but how good would he be on a short oval the same said for Jeff Gordon in a F1 car at Monaco. It is like comparing Apples and Oranges. The only drivers who you really can say are truly great are Mario(Won in F1, Indy and Daytona), and AJ Foyt (LeMans, Indy and Daytona). Basically until F1 drivers of today race on all of the different type of pavement circuits (super speedways, short ovals, road and street courses). I will not considered them the Worlds Greatest Drivers! They are great at road course racing but are not the World's Greatest drivers.
I wish Indy had a dirt 1/2 track in the series how about Knoxville. But it ain't happening!!!
Well, with what you're saying...Quote:
Originally Posted by ezhop7
Jim Clark is the greatest driver ever!
And I wouldn't disagree!
Yes, ezhop7, and you can throw in drag racing, motorcycles, dirt, pavement, sprinters, midgets, stock cars, etc., etc., etc.
Oh, and ug, A.J. Foyt will tell you that he feels Jimmy Clark was the best driver he ever faced.