HOw come Ferrari is not getting involved. This "McLaren data" could be the "Ferrari data" that McLaren was in possesion of?
The plot thickens.
Perhaps Coughlan was just a middle man, between Ferrari and Renault!
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HOw come Ferrari is not getting involved. This "McLaren data" could be the "Ferrari data" that McLaren was in possesion of?
The plot thickens.
Perhaps Coughlan was just a middle man, between Ferrari and Renault!
I remember reports that some of the data had been incorporated into the 2007 Renault. Looking now I found this (http://www.duemotori.com/news/f1/175...w_spy_case.php)
"Lawyers for McLaren are believed to have told the FIA that Renault copied aspects of McLaren's cooling and electronic systems this year after the defecting engineer took with him to the Enstone based team three unspecified 'disks' of detailed data."
Have to wonder how McLaren found out about Renault electronics, do they have a mole in Renault, do you suppose? :D
But sniggering aside, you have to think Flav's only possible defence is that he told the FIA and McLaren as soon as he found out.
No. Same as with Stepneygate. All I was pointing out was that Mclaren's own defence to the orginal Ferrari dossier inquiry was that the info could not be transferred to the MP4/22. That's the same with this current situation....Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
....unless.....
By Mclaren's own logic, the info cannot be of any use.Quote:
Originally Posted by passmeatissue
If the info is claimed by Mclaren to have been used, then they lied to the FIA about the use of data not relating to their own car.
Doesn't MAX want closer racing and homologated parts on the cars. Letting the cheating go on, would accomplish that very quickly and everyone would be driving a Fer-ren-laren.
I was not aware that at any time during Ross's tenure at the Scuderia was there an issue between him and Todt.Quote:
Originally Posted by passmeatissue
This year has shown that is all is not well between Luca and Jean though. Does that mean JT will not be working for the road car devision for much longer either?
Is this the beginning of the end again for Ferrari for a while?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
Could you please book a few minutes to speak at the hearing ?
You could straighten a lot of things out with a few words .
I see your logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
There are some differences though, as it appears that the case against McLaren was that they had in their (or implied to be in their possesion by the fact that their employee had the dossier) possession data belonging to a rival team. There were no specific allegations as to how that info had been incorporated into the car.
With the Renault case however, it appears - prima facie - that specific solutions incorporated on the McLaren car(s) and subsequently found to be incorporated into the Renault (when an employee left McLaren and went and worked for the Reggie) can (theoretically) be shown to be the case.
This I would say is a strong case for proof of the use of another teams IP in the Reggies current cars, and is potentially quite damaging to them in respect of the possible punishment this could incur, given the McLaren punishment.
I think McLaren did lie, and got shown up, for example over Coughlan's role in design, the strength of his relationship with Stepney, and Pedro's input to the simulator. However I also believe Pedro when he said the data was comparatively trivial and the kind that normally gets passed around F1. A 780 page dossier sounds a lot, but most of it would be irrelevant to McLaren.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
I think that also applies to the McLaren-to-Renault data, and that McLaren wouldn't normally have made a complaint about it to the FIA. I think the reason they have done is that they have detected that Max is still out to get them.
And, to keep some perspective, on the subject of lying in F1 of course we remember the FIA spokesperson after the first WMSC meeting: "I can confirm that the verdict was unanimous". :)
Could it also be feasable that if they were getting info, and it has been proven that Mclaren had ferrari data, then Renault may have also gotten some of this info with the Mclaren Info as such a double whammy????
Far Fetched but plausable
With all respect pass meat issue, it's not really something that everyone knew about.Quote:
Originally Posted by passmeatissue