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Normally you would think so. I won't be holding my breath waiting for it to happen though. Maintaining a cautious pace is defined as whatever NASCAR wants it to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnailMale
Richard Childress said it best. "Childress emerged from within the NASCAR truck. "They thought [Biffle] maintained a reasonable speed crossing the finish line.," he said. "It's their call. And Greg had it won if they hadn't run out of gas. They make a call. You've got to live with it."
I am 25 years old and have been watching racing for 25 years (yes I only remember about 17 of them but still).
I guess I just dont understand racing anymore. I cant stand these competition yellows, I cant stand it that we have red flags EVERY race, I cant stand the green white checkered, I cant stand the frozen field BS.
Who knows the rules of this damn sport? I know I dont. I thought I had a understanding, but I guess I dont. No one does because they wont publish the rule book.
First of all, HOW CAN YOU NOT CROSS THE FINISH LINE FIRST AND WIN THE RACE? Has this ever happened before anywhere? In any type of racing? WTF? I was so upset by the end of this race that I almost puked.
I run in an online racing league Sunday nights. Before the race this sunday I called that I get to win the race even if I dont cross the finish line first.
It comes down to this. He ran out of gas, it was obvious. Hes a liar for saying he had gas to go out and do a burnout. When has a driver ever, EVER slowed down and let cars pass him before the checkered flag????? Biffle is a liar, and I dont blame him because I would try pulling the same thing. He got away with it, good for him. As a race fan I am too smart for it. Apparently NASCAR isnt.
NASCAR needs to take a page from the IRL. The decision made at the time is not always correct, and in a case like this it should be reversed. IRL has done this in the past. Heck they had the balls to black flag Scott Goodyear for passing the pace car off of turn 4 and took away the Indy 500 win from him. When has NASCAR made a bold (correctly bold) move like this? Seriously.
If it was up to me, I would drop Biffle back for running out of gas to the spot he held on the track when he crossed the finish line. Because of confusion The rest of the field would remain frozen, giving 07 the win, 48 second, and so on. I dont think you can penalize 48 and other cars for passing because they could keep braking and cause an under caution wreck, or remain the pace speed.
Ok to sum up my long post, NASCAR needs to publish their damn rule book. That is the main problem here. Also we need to end the BS officiating. A red flag used to be a huge deal, now we have one every week. We end every damn race under a green white checkered. If a race is 400 miles, run it 400 miles. Dont change rules just because some fans throw garbage on a track. We dont need competition yellows every race, we know how the tires are going to wear by now. This is frusturating.
Giving the 16 this win is rediculous, I really hope to see a heavy protest, but I expect NASCAR will just shrug it off.
Also nice lie by Jeff Burton, LOL. Cant blame him for lying there also to try to cover his a$$, even though it was a stupid move to pull the fender, which he didnt need to do.
NascarNow just had an interesting phone discussion with Jack Roush. He was VERY diplomatic (and I'm sure will take any gift Nascar gives him), but it was clear he didn't understand nor agree with Nascar's call on the finish. I have to respect his honesty, in a situation where most owners would have just said "Of course Nascar made the right decision".
First, the IRL is a joke. The last thing that NASCAR needs to do is "take a page" from that loser of an organization.Quote:
Originally Posted by ACTF_ZETT
Second. The incident with Scott Goodyear that you mentioned happened in 1995. The Irrelevant Racing League didn't exist until 1996.
How much definition does a fan need on this,I mean whats the difference between pace speed,carrying enough speed,and being a danger to the drivers?Seems to me that Sniffle was a danger at that point and the win should not be allowed.
Actually, something similar has happened. In the 1966 24 Hours of Le Mans, Ford GT40's were running 1-2-3 at the finish. Ford used team orders to organize the cars for a fauxto finish [I hearby trademark that word], but Ford didn't realize the scoring system took the amount of distance between a car's starting spot against the pole sitter's starting spot into account. So while Ken Miles crossed the finish line first, Bruce McLaren and Chris Amon were deemed the winners as they were only half a car length behind. Ford either didn't realize how the timing and scoring system worked, or didn't realize they were still on the same lap.Quote:
Originally Posted by ACTF_ZETT
I think it's possible that Biffle wasn't really out of fuel anyway. He took a really sharp turn into the grass as soon as he crossed the line. Unless he's the terminator, I don't think he could make a turn that sharp with out power steering.
F1 also used to use a system where if a race needed to be red-flagged during the race and then re-started, the time between the cars at the time the red-flag was waved would be taken into consideration during the portion of the race after the red-flag period.Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_andrew
In other words, if Driver A was 10 seconds ahead of Driver B at the red-flag, and at the end of the portion of the race after the red-flag Driver B was ahead of Driver A at the checkered flag, Driver A would still be declared the winner, even though he would have finished second at the flag.
Not sure if it ever worked out that way in any particular race, but that's the way the rules were written. They've been changed now.
I have been mute on this issue because I am so disgusted by it ... :s
a couple of days have went by but I still feel like I was robbed ...
NASCAR keeps making calls that are completely wrong ...
this latest fiasco is just too ridiculous to merit defending NASCAR ...
NASCAR blew it on 2 main issues ... (there are other issues but these are the prominent 2)
1. a green-white-checkered was mandated but NASCAR rewrote the rules to suit themselves ...
NASCAR made the green-white-checkered rule & it has always been enforced until Kansas ...
2. the winner DIDN'T cross the finishline 1st ... that is the 1st rule of racing ...
either the declared winner wasn't really the race winner or else ...
the drivers who passed him under caution have to be penalized !
NASCAR can't have it both ways & maintain any credibility
I keep asking myself "What stupid thing will NASCAR do next ?" http://www.motorsportforum.com/forum...s/rolleyes.gif
I am not looking forward to NASCAR's next stupid action, someone needs to be fired imo ... http://www.motorsportforum.com/forum...cons/icon8.gif
NASCAR is turning into a ridiculous soap opera & I am getting tired of the plot twists ... http://www.motorsportforum.com/forum...es/icons/s.gif
I am neither amused nor am I entertained, NASCAR got it wrong @ Kansas ! http://www.motorsportforum.com/forum...ongue-anim.gif
I think that the GWC thing was called off due to impending darkness. Having a GWC on a dark track without lights would be criminal.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceFanStan
Don't be fooled by how light it looks on TV. Cameras can be deceiving.
Well, First off. Biffle WAS out of gas. He can BS all he wants, but that is the truth. It explains why he dropped to the apron coming to the line, because on the flat, he might have sloshed enough gas in a pick up to restart the motor. That didn't happen.
Secondly, with all the crap with the rainouts and then the impending dark, it was obvious NASCAR was playing all sorts of games to try to maximize the laps run for legitimacy, while not calling the race because impending dark sooner. NASCAR got caught with their pants down. They had never forseen this situation before, and to an point, should be given a pass. IT was about the wackiest end to a race I have seen in a while.
Now, should Biffle get the win? Nope, but that is up to Johnson to protest. That said, he and two or three others passed Biff under the yellow and THAT is against the rules too. So I guess they all should be docked and Casey Mears should be the winner since he maintained his position behind Biffle to the line.....
Would Johnson want to take the penalty in points or drop in position for passing Biffle under the Yellow? Bet your Butt he don't....so lets just drop the fiction that someone is out to get him or Bowyer.
It was one of those decisions that wasn't going to make anyone happy, and NASCAR decided because of the loopy way the race ended, they would just stick with the status quo. Does it stink? Ya...it does, but when the yellow came out, that was the running order and the fans saw the last change in position under race conditions. NASCAR has a history of trying to give the fans the best possible finish and the last changes for position were under a green flag, not a rules infraction fest where they put 4 guys in different spots for not maintaining pace car speed or passing under the yellow.
Lets get real here, if any of this is a great surprise to you, you need to grow up. NASCAR has always changed rules on the fly, and is very cagy about what the rules are because they reserve the right to change and call things to match the conditions at that moment. 95% of the time what they call may not be what you thought it was, but it is in the spirit of competition and what is fair to everyone. Here.....I kind of get where they were going, but I question why they put everyone in this situation in the first place. Live and learn I guess....