Guns Guns Guns, Now Paris!

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Originally Posted by Rollo

Exactly. Then it must follow that said person has an individual religion - total followers: 1.



Lack of belief is NOT atheism but elleipsitheism.
Atheism is from "a" (none) and "theos" (gods). Atheism is a positive belief in the statement that there is/are no god(s).

It's kind of strange for someone to defend a faith structure they don't believe in. Could this be a demonstration of religion; ergo, what I'd said in the first place?

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I fundamentally disagree with your interpretations, firstly of what a religion is (informing your behaviour on anything else than religious doctrine is not a religion. Religion does not exist without invented god(s). I disagree I have a faith structure, I am not defined by Atheism as it has nothing to do to inform the rest of my life. And I disagree with a belief in the lack of something even being possible. Quoting Ricky Gervais, Atheism is a religion in the same way not going skiing is a sport. It's a bit clumsy and I'm sure you can argue the semantics of it, but I don't know why you would.

Do you believe in god? If so which one? If not, what do you catergorise yourself as?

Robinho, shall I understand that nothing/nobody(I mean not neccessarily a specific god ) in this world is sacred to you? :confused:

I think that "the sacred" is a part of human conscience and not just a stage in the "history" of our conscience......

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Originally Posted by Robinho

I fundamentally disagree with your interpretations, firstly of what a religion is (informing your behaviour on anything else than religious doctrine is not a religion. Religion does not exist without invented god(s).

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How do you explain Buddhism then? In some sects of Buddhism there are no gods. There are some Buddhists to believe in god(s) and some who do not. Are you suggesting that the ones who do not are irreligious? Religion can and does exist without invented god(s) in some cases.

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Originally Posted by Robinho

I disagree I have a faith structure, I am not defined by Atheism as it has nothing to do to inform the rest of my life.

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Really? Please explain why you are participating in this discussion then. Obviously your opinions are informed by your beliefs. Even in a completely secular context, we have all sorts of beliefs. I believe for instance that when I hand over a particular coloured piece of plastic, the person on the other side of the counter will let me leave the shop with a pie. Heck, we even call the basis of those coloured pieces of plastic, fiduciary - from the Latin "fidus" or "faith".

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Originally Posted by Robinho

I fundamentally disagree with your interpretations, firstly of what a religion is (informing your behaviour on anything else than religious doctrine is not a religion. Religion does not exist without invented god(s). I disagree I have a faith structure, I am not defined by Atheism as it has nothing to do to inform the rest of my life. And I disagree with a belief in the lack of something even being possible. Quoting Ricky Gervais, Atheism is a religion in the same way not going skiing is a sport. It's a bit clumsy and I'm sure you can argue the semantics of it, but I don't know why you would.

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I think we have similar outlooks on life. I believe in myself and the people I know and love. I am alive and while I am here I will live my life as peacefully as possible. I wouldn't consider myself as an atheist because to me that suggests I live my life by purposely shunning other peoples gods and religion whilst applying a label to myself. I don't, it just has no place in my life at all. I don't think about what I have to believe in everyday I just live my life. I have no problem with people choosing to find comfort in a religion as long as it is not forced upon me or suggested as an answer to something that impacts on me. It really annoys me when people think you have no moral guidance or you cannot possibly love somebody without direction from a god. All this rubbish about having to prove this exists and this doesn't exist because people get super defensive over it. I am here making my own decisions and living my life by what my parents taught me and the morals that were passed down from their parents etc etc. I can pinch myself and see evidence for what I believe in.

I am not an atheist, a none believer, or an agnostic. I simply believe in myself and fellow man and the decisions we make in life. I would never dream of taking another persons life based on their beliefs or if they had insulted mine. Its none of their business and mine is none of theirs. Simple and effective. :)

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Originally Posted by henners88

I am not an atheist, a none believer, or an agnostic. I simply believe in myself and fellow man and the decisions we make in life.

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You're your own God.....:confused: :devil:

Wow, what a peaceful discussion we have here. It's almost a love fest despite our disagreements. It's too bad we don't see Muslims posting on this thread to share peace, compassion and sympathy for Charlie cartoonists.

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

You're your own God.....:confused: :devil:

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why not? Is it so wrong to believe in your own ability & intelligence than depend on someone else's (in case of a God - unknown!)

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Originally Posted by Rollo

How do you explain Buddhism then? In some sects of Buddhism there are no gods. There are some Buddhists to believe in god(s) and some who do not. Are you suggesting that the ones who do not are irreligious? Religion can and does exist without invented god(s) in some cases.


Really? Please explain why you are participating in this discussion then. Obviously your opinions are informed by your beliefs. Even in a completely secular context, we have all sorts of beliefs. I believe for instance that when I hand over a particular coloured piece of plastic, the person on the other side of the counter will let me leave the shop with a pie. Heck, we even call the basis of those coloured pieces of plastic, fiduciary - from the Latin "fidus" or "faith".

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I don't know a huge amount about Buddhism, but it appears to be a very spiritual thing, based on inner peace and all that good stuff. But without Buddha it's not really Buddhism, surely. I take your point generally, but to me religion is based on faith in something tangible. The basis of the sects of Buddhism you refer to sound more to me like humanism, or something similarly natural, based on a oneness with the natural (observable) world.

My reason for participation here was purely on the basis of a desire to see all religions fail (the traditional god based ones, rather than fanatacism or obsession of a team, celebrity etc. that you feel defines a religion). I don't believe in a god, and I fail to understand why anyone would. I honestly think we'd be better off without it (not to say the power hungry and psychotic would not still be present in some form).

I am not interested in the semantics of the origin of words I don't use relating to money that apparently mean faith in the apparent hope of defining money or capitalism as a religion. I restate my point that the word religion only exists because humans invented gods. Without that there would be no reason to define anything as such.

I ask again, do you believe in god, christ, yahwah, allah or any of that tired old rhetoric?

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Originally Posted by henners88

I think we have similar outlooks on life. I believe in myself and the people I know and love. I am alive and while I am here I will live my life as peacefully as possible. I wouldn't consider myself as an atheist because to me that suggests I live my life by purposely shunning other peoples gods and religion whilst applying a label to myself. I don't, it just has no place in my life at all. I don't think about what I have to believe in everyday I just live my life. I have no problem with people choosing to find comfort in a religion as long as it is not forced upon me or suggested as an answer to something that impacts on me. It really annoys me when people think you have no moral guidance or you cannot possibly love somebody without direction from a god. All this rubbish about having to prove this exists and this doesn't exist because people get super defensive over it. I am here making my own decisions and living my life by what my parents taught me and the morals that were passed down from their parents etc etc. I can pinch myself and see evidence for what I believe in.

I am not an atheist, a none believer, or an agnostic. I simply believe in myself and fellow man and the decisions we make in life. I would never dream of taking another persons life based on their beliefs or if they had insulted mine. Its none of their business and mine is none of theirs. Simple and effective. :)

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I'd suggest that makes you an atheist anyway, but I fully understand your desire not to be defined in any way regarding your lack of thought around imaginary gods. I too fully respect anyone's right to believe what they like, but don't expect me not to exerting right to call it ridiculous as I see it

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Originally Posted by Storm

why not? Is it so wrong to believe in your own ability & intelligence than depend on someone else's (in case of a God - unknown!)

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We are lead to believe god created man in his own image. In reality god is the image of what each man imagines in their mind, what they want their god to achieve, which parts of the bible, torah, koran that they feel is important to them to follow and they feel they will be rewarded for following (whilst ignoring the rest). In that way there are billions of gods, all slightly different, and only existing in the minds of the religious. In that way I can see why the religious feel that they have to define non believers feelings, thoughts as their own god, as if their god can only be replaced by another (false) god of human invention