George Zimmerman verdict just in . . .

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Originally Posted by leighton323

Just a question, I am against guns entirely, I think they do way more harm than good, but what if Zimmerman didn't have one, or hadn't used it? Wouldn't we now be in court discussing why Martin is now being trialled for murder and whether or not Zimmerman should have used or had gun to protect himself?

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No, it would just have been a murder of Zimmerman. Just like many other murders, and in that area, only good for a few local news stories. If Zimmerman (and others who were also on the watch patrol), had not been there at all, then somebody's house would have been broken into and people hurt.

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Originally Posted by leighton323

But his job was to patrol the neighbourhood, just like in NZ where police don't have guns. Just because try font have guns doesn't mean they don't want to stop crime?

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Job? If he was doing some sort of "job", then he would have heeded the advice of the 911 dispatcher who said that they didn't need him chasing people around. The law says you can defend yourself if you feel threatened, which if he was being pummeled then he had the right to do so, but to actually go and deliberately put yourself in a position where you could be threatened? That's the work of a complete and utter incompetent moron of an amateur.

What kind of Police officer would see someone (admittedly looking a bit suspicious) committing no crime and then choose to put themselves in a situation where that other person could then reasonably feel the need to attack them?

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Originally Posted by markabilly

What a surprise, Daniel follows his own Rule 1: "Rule 1 of the forum, always accuse anyone who disagrees with you of bias.I (sic) would say that though." (a quote complete with the typo)

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I can't see any other reason why he would be accused of this other than someone being a complete knuckle dragger and being racist.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Job? If he was doing some sort of "job", then he would have heeded the advice of the 911 dispatcher who said that they didn't need him chasing people around. The law says you can defend yourself if you feel threatened, which if he was being pummeled then he had the right to do so, but to actually go and deliberately put yourself in a position where you could be threatened? That's the work of a complete and utter incompetent moron of an amateur.

What kind of Police officer would see someone (admittedly looking a bit suspicious) committing no crime and then choose to put themselves in a situation where that other person could then reasonably feel the need to attack them?

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Sorry, what was his job, wasn't it neighbourhood watch? Anyway the advice given to Zimmerman in this situation was probably the best thing to do but given still, usually the job of any sort of law enforcement/Neighbourhood watch/etc. is to prevent crime, not to let it happen and deal with it afterwards. That is what is spoken about here in NZ and i feel it is a fairly good way of protecting a community, Don't you?

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Originally Posted by leighton323

Sorry, what was his job, wasn't it neighbourhood watch? Anyway the advice given to Zimmerman in this situation was probably the best thing to do but given still, usually the job of any sort of law enforcement/Neighbourhood watch/etc. is to prevent crime, not to let it happen and deal with it afterwards. That is what is spoken about here in NZ and i feel it is a fairly good way of protecting a community, Don't you?

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Correct. Except having lost sight of him in the dark as apparently Martin knew he was being followed and took evasive action, Zimmerman was on a path back to his car (which car and house was still inside his gated community) when Martin attacked. No gun was drawn, threatened to be used or used until Martin had Zimmerman pinned to the ground and was beating on him. Besides, the first question the police always ask when they arrive in response to such a call, is where did he go???? Does not do much good to say, well he might still be here somewhere, maybe he broke into somebody's home, or maybe he ran off to some other place out side of the homes in the gated community........

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Originally Posted by leighton323

Sorry, what was his job, wasn't it neighbourhood watch? Anyway the advice given to Zimmerman in this situation was probably the best thing to do but given still, usually the job of any sort of law enforcement/Neighbourhood watch/etc. is to prevent crime, not to let it happen and deal with it afterwards. That is what is spoken about here in NZ and i feel it is a fairly good way of protecting a community, Don't you?

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I missed out the part of neighbourhood watch where the job of the wannabe cop is to pursue someone who appears to be committing no crime, then to cause a situation where one person feels threatened and attacks, then causing the other side to reply with deadly force.

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Originally Posted by leighton323

But his job was to patrol the neighbourhood, just like in NZ where police don't have guns. Just because they don't have guns doesn't mean they don't want to stop crime?

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Zimmerman was a volunteer with the local "Neighborhood Watch" busybodies, not a member of any law enforcement agency. :bulb:

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A neighborhood watch may be organized as its own group or may simply be a function of a neighborhood association or other community association.

Neighborhood watches are not vigilante organizations. When suspecting criminal activities, members are encouraged to contact authorities and not to intervene.

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Originally Posted by markabilly

Correct. Except having lost sight of him in the dark as apparently Martin knew he was being followed and took evasive action, Zimmerman was on a path back to his car (which car and house was still inside his gated community) when Martin attacked. No gun was drawn, threatened to be used or used until Martin had Zimmerman pinned to the ground and was beating on him. Besides, the first question the police always ask when they arrive in response to such a call, is where did he go. Does not do much good to say, well he might still be here somewhere, maybe he broke into somebody's home, or maybe he ran off to some other place out side of the homes in the gated community........

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So if I see you walking down the street at night doing absolutely nothing wrong, and Zimmerman never actually saw Martin do anything wrong, then what would your natural reaction be when I pursue you? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I missed out the part of neighbourhood watch where the job of the wannabe cop is to pursue someone who appears to be committing no crime, then to cause a situation where one person feels threatened and attacks, then causing the other side to reply with deadly force.

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Hello??? It is called trespass. The trespass was reported and Martin disappears. About two minutes later, Martin attacks Zimmerman. Zimmerman is unable to make another phone call and it is the neighbor who hears cries for help and sees Martin on top, pounding Zimmerman into the ground, who calls the police while the attack is still occurring. This call also results in the cries for help being recorded by police dispatchers. Martin's parents claim that is their "baby" screaming for help. Others say Zimmerman. The one who made the call to the police, says it is Zimmerman who is beneath Martin, screaming for help. There is a single muffled shot, and Martin falls off of Zimmerman.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

So if I see you walking down the street at night doing absolutely nothing wrong, and Zimmerman never actually saw Martin do anything wrong, then what would your natural reaction be when I pursue you? :confused:

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Yes I understand what you mean, but we have to be realistic here, what's the point in having any sort of neighbourhood watch if they didn't actually try and prevent the crime. How many other thousands of times do you think this has occurred with other people who are protecting there community. I bet 99.99% of these times it's just a couple of kids mucking around somewhere they shouldn't be and then that 00.01% the guy ends up attacking you risking your life, and we have the case we have now. I know he shouldn't have put himself in a position to be attacked but I feel maybe, someone trying to attack and kill you isn't the first thing you are worried about or expecting.