Yes, I do. One has proper runoff areas, allowing for a bit more bravado in out braking maneuvers. The other doesn't. To me it makes a BIG difference.
Gary
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Yes, I do. One has proper runoff areas, allowing for a bit more bravado in out braking maneuvers. The other doesn't. To me it makes a BIG difference.
Gary
Yes, but I'm probably in the minority. That's not to say I dislike one more than the other. It's just I appreciate what it takes to be competitive on each, much like the difference between an oval and a road.Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_andrew
I don't think your ideas are ridiculous at all. And I agree that in order to get anything done (at this stage), thinking outside the box is exactly what it's going to take.Quote:
Originally Posted by NY2IA
Lack of sponsor activation is certainly an issue. Possibly you remember the days when Zanardi, Montoya, de Ferran and others were featured in national ads... that didn't just get shown during races. FedEx and Honda were especially good at doing fun ads which had broad appeal. Back in the day, back when Rusty Wallace was in the Miller Lite sponsored Winston Cup car and Bobby Rahal was in the Miller Lite sponsored CART IndyCar, there was a plan floated to have them swap cars for a promo. My understanding is that Rahal was willing to go for it but Wallace would not. As Penske owned the majority of Wallace's car and he had teams in both CART and NASCAR, seems like he could have made it happen. But Penske has never really gone out of his way to feature the series or his drivers in ads... in fact, I don't think he's ever done any ads - although I think he did have some giant IndyCar decals, showing the race cars, on some of his Penske rental trucks (haven't seen any in years, so I don't know what he dies now). He has been instrumental in getting certain company sponsors involved, but it was usually, primarily to his benefit. So it didn't happen.
So with all that said, we should ask, why do companies become involved in racing series? They do it to help themselves (increase exposure and the chances of selling more products or services). They don't do it to help the series... unless there is some sort of friendship or family connection (and that's usually the ride-buyers). As this series has plummeted in popularity, it's become harder to find companies who will do anything more than write a check. Getting them to write the check and activate that sponsorship, featuring the series or drivers in ads, has become all but impossible. The sad fact is, so few people these days would even know anything about what was in the ad.
An idea that I've had since this form of racing (whether Champ Car or IRL) began falling in popularity: the series should pay certain high profile sponsors to become involved. Maybe not cover all of the costs, but maybe 50/50 or 60/40 just to get them onboard and also pay a portion of the costs for them to activate that sponsorship. Who? I don't know. How about some "beer wagon wars" like we used to have? Say, the Budweiser car vs. the Miller Lite car vs. the Coors Lite car vs. the Heineken car? Computer company wars, mobile phone wars, watch wars, etc.?
The problem with all of our ideas (that would actually have some effect) is that they'll cost money. And the question becomes, who will write the checks? The sponsors don't see the sponsor exposure value any longer and the series owners now seem tired of taking multi-million dollar annual losses keeping this thing afloat. So they're now running it on the cheap.
I do, huge difference between one and the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_andrew
Just for the record, places that were constructed for racing but are not racing venues all year long (they are usually parks and the public gets to use the road for running and/or skating/using a bike) I don't consider them street courses but road courses.
Mistakes should have consequences. Too many times the proper runoff areas allow a driver to continue whereas the same mistake on a street course has the driver coming home on a hook. False bravado is going for it because the risk is minimized.Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
The curbs keep getting lower, smoother and they keep adding paving on the exits of the turns. Put curbs on the apex and exit of the turns, make the drivers race on the track. It should be about precision, all the time; no oops, oh well.
Don't get me wrong, yes I am an oval fan, but there is no prettier venue than Road America, but too often putting a wheel wrong does not even slow the driver.
Laguna Seca is owned by the Monterey County Parks Department making it technically a street course. The same can be said for Circuit Gilles-Villeneuve.Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
I suppose the Daytona Beach Course could be classified as a street course and an oval.
Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_andrew
That's an affirmative for me as well, though I prefer to call them temporary courses. Long Beach and Baltimore are not the same as Road America and Watkins Glen. Shoot, LB and Bmore are very different from St Pete and Edmonton and we call them all street courses. Houston is different from all of them as IIRC its all parking lots and access roads. I think Baltimore is actually the only one that is 100% streets. Pit lane is the only part that is a parking lot. Even the pit strait is a public road.
Laguna is in a park, however it's a proper natural terrain road course. I don't believe it's ever open to regular traffic. CGV and Belle Isle are on public park roads and parking lots and used as city streets the other 360 ish days a year.Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_andrew
You can start by adding back
Cleveland (make it the last race, crazy racing to have a title decided)
Michigan
Road America
Laguna Seca
Australia
Japan (road course)
Montreal
You can get rid of
Iowa
Texas
Milwaukee
Do not have many 2 week breaks between races
Two race weekend does not work for me
Think about Europe latter
Making the racing like it was everything else can and will fall into place
As someone said in one of these posts - the ideas are much easier than the funding. We need a wealthy benefactor to make things happen and said benefactor needs to have an iron fist in running the series and keeping the teams in line. The benefactor also needs to be fair enough that the team owners know they are getting a fair deal....
Specifically, DIVERSITY is what actually grew the series. The only time in the history of AOWR when the "Champcar" part of the AOWR ladder even approached mainstream acceptance AS A WHOLE was the CART era when you had an impressive mix of courses, cars, engines, nationalities, sponsors, etc. Anyopen who thinks that the series of the 70's was more successful only has to watch a few Youtube races to see that the attendance, product, etc. was no great shakes then either....
The Indy 500 has always been popular and the dirt ovals of the mid-West have always been popular, albeit on a much smaller and more localized scale - but the rest of AOWR has been on the margins for its entire existence (with the possible exception of the teens and 20's when it was all "new") with the exception of the CART era.
I am not suggesting that we need to re-create CART because one cannot ignore that the underlying key to the success of CART was free flowing money from "sin advertising" since that era allowed the cigarette companies in particular little other options for advertising....
So, it gets back to the need to a wealthy benefactor with no place else to spend their money....
Since that is not likely to happen, I suggest downsizing the entire series and expectations around it. Accept the current status as a sport on the margins and take the repercussions of that acceptance and then begin to re-build a fan base the old fashioned way: word of mouth and by providing value and something unique. We need to stop comparing this series to a past that hardly ever existed. The series needs to acknowledge that all past business models are outmoded (and that the only one that was really successful involved a cash infusion that is no longer available). The series needs to embrace its marginality nad use that as a promotional tool. The series needs to acknowledge the changes in media and work in truly innovative ways to reach its audience through ever evolving "new media"...
Overall, the past was neither as good nor as bad as many seem to want to believe.