Massage to Indy brass...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by garyshell

You seem to be under the impression that Le Mans is a one off race and that the manufacturers flock to this one race spending bucket loads of money for one race. That just is not the case

---

You're right. Sometimes these one offs are entered at Sebring to ensure they are ready for Le Mans. Or in the case of the Deltawing, it was entered at Atlanta in an attempt to prove what it didn't get a chance to prove at Le Mans. The need to shake things down was why the month of May was a month.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by garyshell

(W)here do you propose to come up with the money to build a car to run at one race, the Indy 500?

---

The role of the management at Indy was never to fund the building of a race car. That came about when a megalomaniac became jealous of the France family. The role of the management at Indy was, and is, to protect the legacy of the event and to ensure that it lasts for another 100 years. That requires a reverence for it's past and acknowledgement of how this event earned amd maintained it's place amongst the greatest races in the world.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by garyshell

Without a series there is no Indy 500, teams simply can't afford to spend the development dollars to build a car and only race it one time a year. No sponsor will put up enough money for one day of exposure.

---

You keep forgetting that the Indy 500 came first. The prestige of winning that single event, was what eventually allowed the creation of what is now called the Indycar series.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by garyshell

Again I hear what needs to be done, but I see no financial prospectus or business plan as to HOW to do it.

---

It requires an engine and chassis rules package for Indy that is separated from any current or future series that may or may not bear it's name. I'd be happy to provide you with a much more detailed turnaround plan. How much will I be compensated for my effort?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by garyshell

YI'll ask the same question of you that I asked Fiat1, where do you propose to come up with the money to build a car to run at one race, the Indy 500?

---

If you created rules for Indy that allowed new technology to share the track with the spec series, then I guarantee that Penske, Ganassi, et al would go over that new rule book with a fine tooth comb. And if they thought a diesel or a hybrid would give them even the slightest competitive advantage, you can be sure they would find the money to enter one in the Indy 500.

Build it and they will come. They aren't coming now. So what's to lose?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rex Monaco

If you created rules for Indy that allowed new technology to share the track with the spec series, then I guarantee that Penske, Ganassi, et al would go over that new rule book with a fine tooth comb. And if they thought a diesel or a hybrid would give them even the slightest competitive advantage, you can be sure they would find the money to enter one in the Indy 500.

Build it and they will come. They aren't coming now. So what's to lose?

---

Agreed. A lot of people would moan about rich teams buying a win, but I'm not one of them. This is suppose to be competition at the highest level, not some forum to champion the egalitarian ideal.

When Penske brought the pushrod Mercedes to Indy in 94, they dominated, but I loved it. They thought outside the box, and we're willing to invest huge resources in winning the race. People making that sort of investment enhnaces the event. It adds to the prestige of winning.

While I know these teams are strapped for cash, some innovations should be allowed. Further, these innovations would encourage others to participate, something that would increase further interest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bricarr2

Agreed. A lot of people would moan about rich teams buying a win, but I'm not one of them. This is suppose to be competition at the highest level, not some forum to champion the egalitarian ideal.

When Penske brought the pushrod Mercedes to Indy in 94, they dominated, but I loved it. They thought outside the box, and we're willing to invest huge resources in winning the race. People making that sort of investment enhnaces the event. It adds to the prestige of winning.

While I know these teams are strapped for cash, some innovations should be allowed. Further, these innovations would encourage others to participate, something that would increase further interest.

---

Agreed!!! That's my thinking exactly
.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rex Monaco

If you created rules for Indy that allowed new technology to share the track with the spec series, then I guarantee that Penske, Ganassi, et al would go over that new rule book with a fine tooth comb. And if they thought a diesel or a hybrid would give them even the slightest competitive advantage, you can be sure they would find the money to enter one in the Indy 500.

Build it and they will come. They aren't coming now. So what's to lose?

---

I can see the pole row now. Unfortunately I can't see rows two through eleven. It will make the six car F1 event look over subscribed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starter

Unfortunately I can't see rows two through eleven.

---

They run Offys, Fords, Cosworths, Judds, or anything else made to spec like they always have.

More than likely, it'd be filled with Indycars. There is still a series to try and save. Which I think also includes Indycar changing to small displacement turbo V8's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starter

I can see the pole row now. Unfortunately I can't see rows two through eleven. It will make the six car F1 event look over subscribed.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rex Monaco

They run Offys, Fords, Cosworths, Judds, or anything else made to spec like they always have.

More than likely, it'd be filled with Indycars. There is still a series to try and save. Which I think also includes Indycar changing to small displacement turbo V8's.

---

Check the calendar, it's not 1965 anymore. The days of mom and pop teams being able to afford to build an Indy car are a thing of the past. Look I love the idea of an open series. It would be great to see a mixture of engines and chassis. But I think we are dreamin'. I still have not heard an answer from any of you calling for this on where the money is going to come from. As Starter said under this proposal you will have a small (read VERY small) field of cars starting the Indy 500. And without a series to go along with it, you will have NO cars at all. It's just too expensive now. I live in Cincinnati and the Hoffman family lives in a small town nearby, they ran a car every year at Indy from the time I was a kid till it became expensive for them to compete.

We have the reality of barely being able to field 33 cars at Indy now, and that is with a car that does not require the teams to spend massive amounts of money on engineering and testing. Under your proposal that cost will rise exponentially. How would the teams afford that?

Gary

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by garyshell

I still have not heard an answer from any of you calling for this on where the money is going to come from.

---

The money for the 1st entries under the new rules comes from Audi as they try to be the first modern entry to use a Diesel to win the Indy 500. The following year Toyota decides to join Audi. The third year, seeing the rise in popularity of the event, GM develops an hybrid under the Volt brand. And it continues to snowball, year after year. And thus the Indy 500 begins it's slow climb back up to it's place as a preeminent motorsports event.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by garyshell

As Starter said under this proposal you will have a small (read VERY small) field of cars starting the Indy 500. And without a series to go along with it, you will have NO cars at all.

---

The Indycar series produces the rest of the 33 car field. The Indycar series is not going away. So why do you keep saying there will be no cars? Do you expect the Indycar series to die after one small rule change at Indy? As an equivalency formula, it's designed to keep the Indycar's competitive. It does not guarantee that an Audi Diesel would win. It just guarantee's that an Audi Diesel would be able to make an attempt to qualify for the race.

This proposal is about returning the halo back to the Indy 500 and using that restored halo to shine light onto the series. The halo is completely gone right now. Forget about casual fans at the moment. To most dedicated racing fans the Indy 500 is just another track for the struggling series called Indycar. The Indy 500 needs to shine again for any series racing at the Indy 500 to survive, let alone thrive. This would increase the value for their sponsors.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by garyshell

It's just too expensive now.

---

It's not that it's too expensive. It's that the investment into the series for a sponsor does not produce a good return on it's investment. Bringing international media hype back to the cornerstone event at Indy would go along way to elevating the exposure that sponsors get.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by garyshell

Under your proposal that cost will rise exponentially. How would the teams afford that?

---

Every major auto maker in the world could afford it. A few would even spend the money if they felt there was some marketing advantage to winning the Indy 500. When the Chinese automakers come to the US, don't you think they'd find value in being the first Chinese auto maker to win the Indy 500?

And how much more expensive would it be for Audi to run it's own engines at Indy verses developing an engine that has to be sold at a fixed price and serviced to X number of teams? And other than Indycar rules, who says Audi couldn't sell or lease those engines to other teams once they are developed?

The track and the series were placed into a very narrowly defined box as an experiment. By all measures, that experiment has failed. And it's failure has diminished the value of both the race and the series. It's time to go back to what built the track in the first place. Because saving the race is much more important to the success of Indycars that trying to save the series.

Indy came first. It attracted automakers for roughly 9/10ths of it's 100 year history. It's time to put Indy first again and fix the damage that's been done to the race over the last 15 years.

It's either that or in 100 years the tracks legacy race will be the Brickyard 400 with the Indy 500 remembered only as a historical footnote.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by garyshell

Check the calendar, it's not 1965 anymore. The days of mom and pop teams being able to afford to build an Indy car are a thing of the past. Look I love the idea of an open series. It would be great to see a mixture of engines and chassis. But I think we are dreamin'. I still have not heard an answer from any of you calling for this on where the money is going to come from.

We have the reality of barely being able to field 33 cars at Indy now, and that is with a car that does not require the teams to spend massive amounts of money on engineering and testing. Under your proposal that cost will rise exponentially. How would the teams afford that?

Gary

---

Ok, who will pay for it? First start with the owners of the series to make investment in to the product that people want to buy, and hire pr company to flood the media with it in every posible way. Than open competition where common industry(in this case car industry) wants to participate and use the product for promotion of their own goods and that would bring the money with them. Now that requires opening the rules and go away with spec. Why people race LeMans? To see three wide go for hrs with spec engine, or to see something spetacular laping everyone twice to change history with new inovation and at same time intrigues and invites others to compete? That's what Indy needs, understand who is their fan base and that new generation of tech aficionados and car buffs is waiting for something with wow factor.They need to come back to what they always been, track and series of inovation with in rules. Now, when you have the good product you can raise ticket price as people like me are willing to pay more for better. I can't see Indycar making it with spec series and club type a racing, as we know that market and money is gone and why bother. Cars make stars not the other way oround. I do understand that tobaco is gone therefore playground needs to change to acomodate new players ,but you have to move on from mom and pop racing club mentality also, and that one spec ugly dallara is not way to go in the future. I would say to those who say it's easy to spend others money, that I'm only loyal fan, who still spend his own money to see crap product with a hope for better, and I still support those who took this sport down, just because of that little hope it will come back by taking right direction. When it comes to spending we all know how much was wasted and spend in to nothing since 96 without our help and opinion. Where is everyone? Yes gone.Why? Cars,that's why. They want better than .2 than they need to and should spend their money to invest in to best product posible or close the shop, after all it's their product and we are consumers.

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but the practicality is missing:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FIAT1

Ok, who will pay for it? First start with the owners of the series to make investment in to the product that people want to buy, and hire pr company to flood the media with it in every posible way.

---

It's been pretty much proven that the owners (the family) are NOT willing to sink more millions of dollars into what they perceive as a bottomless pit.

Quote:

---

Than open competition where common industry(in this case car industry) wants to participate and use the product for promotion of their own goods and that would bring the money with them. Now that requires opening the rules and go away with spec.

---

It is not true that all car companies see racing, of any type, as a desirable platform to promote their products. That narrows the field of potential participants quite a bit.

Quote:

---

Why people race LeMans? To see three wide go for hrs with spec engine, or to see something spetacular laping everyone twice to change history with new inovation and at same time intrigues and invites others to compete? That's what Indy needs, understand who is their fan base and that new generation of tech aficionados and car buffs is waiting for something with wow factor.They need to come back to what they always been, track and series of inovation with in rules.

---

Couple of things here:

First, people, and therefore sponsors, go where the most people watch. LeMans, yes, it still has the worldwide attention as does F1. IndyCar lost it during the split. There is no appreciable audience for sponsors to play to. The series would need to gain a following before companies start spending major advertising dollars here. It's a chicken & egg thing.

Second, there is no "new generation of tech aficionados". The car generation is over. Younger people these days do not have the same interest in autos and speed that there was before. Two reasons for that - you essentially can't work on your own car anymore and there are many other things, mostly electronic, to get into. Are there some folks still into motorsport? Of course there are. Just not enough. Of the people who attended races, motorheads were NEVER in the majority. It was the casual fan who made up the crowds, as I stated earlier. They go to "big" events and IndyCar is not one these days.

Quote:

---

Now, when you have the good product you can raise ticket price as people like me are willing to pay more for better.

---

Yeah, but there are not anywhere close to enough people like us to make a difference.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to have faster, more interesting, cars; higher output motors; the whole deal. The reality is that the economics are not there at this time. Maybe they never will be there again, I don't know. In the meantime, I'll enjoy what we have for as long as it lasts.

Oh, and don't dismiss club racing. You'll see some of the best racing anywhere at club races. You should take a few in.