Top Drivers from 2000 Onwards

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Originally Posted by Rollo

Number of championships... nil.

If you have been affected by this comment, why not ring the JPM Crisis line on 1800-10-10-10. That's 1800 won nothing, won nothing, won nothing. :D

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Haha this comment deserves a prize! If Montoya was so great, why did no-one want him for 2007, and Pat Symonds call him unemployable?

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Originally Posted by steveaki13

Have to agree with you Garry. Watching 2005 especially you really cant say they were equal then. Kimi had potential multiple titles and may still get them, while I never felt JPM was ever quite ready to win a title.

Although Montoya was always great to watch. 2001 he had some brilliant drives, but also some average ones. 2002 alot of poles, but some poor races albeit against a tremendous Ferrari.

2003 he had his only real title charge, the win in Germany was brilliant and dominent.

After that I felt he was quite poor.

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Have to agree with that. Many will point to the end of 2005, but Kimi was demotivated by losing the title, and the car was also adapted away from Kimi to Montoya. I think Kimi still had the edge anyway. Whatever, I feel that Bobby Rahal's assertion that Montoya "was the kind of driver that only comes along every two generations" was off the mark to say the least.

He did well against Ralf but people with observent eyes say Kimi displayed a surgical skill in the McLaren compared to Montoya's chuck it in and sort it out approach. I think the first one shows more skill. JPM's supporters point to him being demotivated in 2006 (while conveniently overlooking the same for Kimi at the end of '05), but maybe part of the reason for being demotivated was simply his team-mate being too good for him.

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Originally Posted by rjbetty

Have to agree with that. Many will point to the end of 2005, but Kimi was demotivated by losing the title, and the car was also adapted away from Kimi to Montoya.

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Will point to the end of 2005? what do you mean? Kimi was much faster at the start of 2005, in the middle and also at the end. The only race where Montoya was as fast as Kimi was Brazil. In everywhere else he was slower and often completely destroyed by Kimi.

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He did well against Ralf but people with observent eyes say Kimi displayed a surgical skill in the McLaren compared to Montoya's chuck it in and sort it out approach.

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Well, Ralf did very well against Montoya. He was better than montoya in 2001 and 2002, in 2003 they were equal and in 2004 RAlf was injured for half a year.

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I think the first one shows more skill. JPM's supporters point to him being demotivated in 2006 (while conveniently overlooking the same for Kimi at the end of '05), but maybe part of the reason for being demotivated was simply his team-mate being too good for him.

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He was not demotivated, he was just stuck with a bad car in 2006 and saw his teammate being so much faster than him. Him being emotionally a 5 year old of course threw a tantrum.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Will point to the end of 2005? what do you mean? Kimi was much faster at the start of 2005, in the middle and also at the end. The only race where Montoya was as fast as Kimi was Brazil. In everywhere else he was slower and often completely destroyed by Kimi.

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Well sadly, I remember Nigel Roebuck in particular (who was such a Montoya fanboy in a way that makes it look like Horner and Marko hate Vettel) making a big deal in his column about how JPM was quicker in Belgium, Brazil, Turkey and China! Though it was Bobby Rahal who said "I think that Montoya is the kind of driver who only comes along once every two generations", it might as well have been Nige who said it, by the way he quoted it. JPM's many fans hold these views too... :( They also make a big meal out of his injury, suggesting he would have beaten Kimi without it. :mad:

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Well, Ralf did very well against Montoya. He was better than Montoya in 2001 and 2002, in 2003 they were equal and in 2004 Ralf was injured for half a year.

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Yeah I kinda agree, but Montoya was a rookie in 2001. I think Montoya did do better in 2002: He averaged 1 hundreth slower in qualifying but scored more points and got 7 poles to Ralf's 0 - though Ralf did get the team's only win.

2003 - Have to say Montoya was better overall though Ralf properly showed him up plenty of times.

2004 - Have to say Ralf was pretty equal actually! JPM wasn't a lot faster than Gené and was struggling a little against Pizzonia's pace at Spa and maybe Monza too.

JPM's fans will have you believe he dominated Ralf though. :(

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

He was not demotivated, he was just stuck with a bad car in 2006 and saw his teammate being so much faster than him. Him being emotionally a 5 year old of course threw a tantrum.

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Absolutely agree.

He also spun out of races quite a few times. The excuses his fans make for him in 2006 are beyond belief. If Montoya was so good, he would have been kept on at McLaren. Red Bull didn't want anything to do with him, preferring Webber. Neither did Renault, or Ferrari, who rated Schumacher Kimi and Alonso higher.

I personally think Montoya was the most overrated driver of the 2000s - in reality, I feel he was on a similar level to Felipe Massa - though his reputation was much higher, his performance just wasn't. :)


It was around this time that I had to accept the hard truth that my favourite Fisichella just wasn't the match of Alonso, but I find Montoya's fans are much like the man himself and have little class and are just immature in their arguments. :(

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Originally Posted by rjbetty

Well sadly, I remember Nigel Roebuck in particular (who was such a Montoya fanboy in a way that makes it look like Horner and Marko hate Vettel) making a big deal in his column about how JPM was quicker in Belgium, Brazil, Turkey and China! Though it was Bobby Rahal who said "I think that Montoya is the kind of driver who only comes along once every two generations", it might as well have been Nige who said it, by the way he quoted it. JPM's many fans hold these views too... :( They also make a big meal out of his injury, suggesting he would have beaten Kimi without it. :mad:

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JPM fans are deranged. Montoya was clearly slower at Spa, at Turkey and also at China. At Brazil they were equally fast.

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Yeah I kinda agree, but Montoya was a rookie in 2001. I think Montoya did do better in 2002: He averaged 1 hundreth slower in qualifying but scored more points and got 7 poles to Ralf's 0 - though Ralf did get the team's only win.

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JPM got more poles, but was outqualified if I remember correctly.

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2003 - Have to say Montoya was better overall though Ralf properly showed him up plenty of times

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We have to remember that at mid season, when Williams was the fastest car, Ralf dominated Montoya. Ralf also was injured in testing at Monza.

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JPM's fans will have you believe he dominated Ralf though. :(

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Montoya fans are one of the most outrageously fanatical (and often dumb) group of fans in F1 ever.

Come off it!

7 grand prix wins
1 Indianapolis win
1 CART Champoinship

You can't dismiss him out of hand

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Originally Posted by D-Type

Come off it!

7 grand prix wins
1 Indianapolis win
1 CART Champoinship

You can't dismiss him out of hand

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I can and will dismiss him out of hand for the purposes of this thread.
The name of this thread is "Top Drivers from 2000 Onwards".

Button, Raikkonen and Hamilton have all won F1 Championships from 2000 onwards but they also didn't make my list. Montoya's CART Champoinship happened in 1999 which is NOT from 2000 onwards.

Fair point. But some of the abusive criticism in earlier posts is not justifiable

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Originally Posted by rjbetty

I personally think Montoya was the most overrated driver of the 2000s - in reality, I feel he was on a similar level to Felipe Massa - though his reputation was much higher, his performance just wasn't. :)

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Massa beat Kimi so by that logic...

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Originally Posted by wedge

Massa beat Kimi so by that logic...

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Yeah I was thinking of that, and my conclusion is that I think Massa has performed to a higher level than Montoya reached in F1, if you completely take reputation out of it and just look at what was done.

I do also think Kimi isn't quite THAT good i.e. not equal to Schumacher, Hamilton, Vettel or Alonso, but better than Button, Massa and Webber.