Lance Armstrong found guilty of doping

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Originally Posted by Malbec

I studied elite athletic physiology for a degree with a particular focus on cyclists because these guys are the ultimate aerobic exercise machines.

Their exercise tolerance and therefore competitiveness is based on three factors:

1)Their cardiac output which can be increased with training.

2)Their blood oxygen carrying capacity which is what stuff like EPO increases but otherwise they can't do much about.

3)Their VO2Max, or their maximum oxygen uptake capacity in their lungs which is something they can do nothing to improve.

They can improve 1) by training to a certain level but all these guys are fit so they are equal in this regard. When it comes to 2) they are either equal or they are on easily identifiable drugs or have to self transfuse. Either way these methods are detectable. 3) they can do nothing about.

For motorsports guys it would be as if drivers were given a maximum engine capacity randomly at the start of their careers which they could never change. However talented they were, however well they trained if another guy had a higher VO2max you could do nothing to close the gap with them except for taking drugs. Given how competitive these guys are I really am not surprised one bit that they're tempted to take drugs. Must be heartbreaking to realise you'll never be the best regardless of how hard you train or how well you do on the day because your lung capacity isn't big enough.

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Your conclusion to point 1 is misleading and I would say not true. Even though they are all fit they are not all equal.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

I studied elite athletic physiology for a degree with a particular focus on cyclists because these guys are the ultimate aerobic exercise machines.

Their exercise tolerance and therefore competitiveness is based on three factors:

1)Their cardiac output which can be increased with training.

2)Their blood oxygen carrying capacity which is what stuff like EPO increases but otherwise they can't do much about.

3)Their VO2Max, or their maximum oxygen uptake capacity in their lungs which is something they can do nothing to improve.

They can improve 1) by training to a certain level but all these guys are fit so they are equal in this regard. When it comes to 2) they are either equal or they are on easily identifiable drugs or have to self transfuse. Either way these methods are detectable. 3) they can do nothing about.

For motorsports guys it would be as if drivers were given a maximum engine capacity randomly at the start of their careers which they could never change. However talented they were, however well they trained if another guy had a higher VO2max you could do nothing to close the gap with them except for taking drugs. Given how competitive these guys are I really am not surprised one bit that they're tempted to take drugs. Must be heartbreaking to realise you'll never be the best regardless of how hard you train or how well you do on the day because your lung capacity isn't big enough.

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Tell me about it. no3.... :bigcry:
Elite level moto-cross guys are up there with bicycle guys,,,a little different from a duration of work being between 30 and 45 minutes and much much harsher enviroment (bicycle guys are not getting showered with rocks coming at them at who knows what speed and approaching the rocks at 10-75 mph--that breaks fingers and teeth and noses and toes) or breathing in what should be choking dust, mud, cow-poo, bugs, or enduring repeated compressive forces ( I lost 40mm in height in 5 serious years--and 35 years later had crushed the nerves exiting the spine in 2 places; taller guys lost more height).

Years of training and to know you are stupid strong but your lungs just won't get any better is very frustrating...especially when this is what you are doing to pay the rent.
And yes it was really odd watching guys you'd known since forever suddenly in 2 years go from being a fit but kinda skinny Swede bulk up to something that looked like "the Hulk".. Hmmmmm. never knew we needed to have necks like tree trunks. :uhoh:

I think the only real solution to the problem is clear, remove the ban on performance enhancing drugs. In all sports. It's silly to pretend that any sport at the professional level its played at these days is purely about ability. Every single sport requires not only for the athlete to be talented, but also for them to have sufficient financial support to have access to the best training facilities, the best "legal" performance enhancing supplements, the best doctors, etc.

Performance enhancing drugs and human augmentation technology is a very interesting area of research, and some of the things discovered and developed in sport might have benefits for all of us. You are never, ever going to be able to eradicated the use of what are currently considered illegal performance enhancers, and the only way to ensure that at an elite level, everyone is on an even playing field, is to to have a lassiez-faire approach to enhancement.

Because they are highly dangerous. EPO for example can thicken the blood so much that you'll just have a heart attack and die.

New doping techniques and technologies are always a step ahead of the doping tests and that will always be like that.
IMHO doping is not the cause it's just the symptom of a deeper cause and it is that cause which should instead be investigated and eradicated.

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Originally Posted by Mark

Because they are highly dangerous. EPO for example can thicken the blood so much that you'll just have a heart attack and die.

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by ioan

New doping techniques and technologies are always a step ahead of the doping tests and that will always be like that.

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True but luckily now they can keep the samples for five years and do the tests again with new developed methods, at least one athlete was banned from London Olympics because of this.

One dopehead beat lots of other dopeheads lots of times. He's still the best... dopehead.

speaking of dopeheads . . . this forum has some cases :look:

specially in the cases where topics go round and around and around . . . . . . .

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Originally Posted by race aficionado

speaking of dopeheads . . . this forum has some cases :look:

specially in the cases where topics go round and around and around . . . . . . .

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Don't be so harsh on yourself. :p