The potential of manufacturers at this point?

Car companies do not take NZ seriously at all. For the most part we have new car brands in NZ solely due to the fact that we have private NZ companies importing them. Most manufacturers upped roots and buggered off when the Govt pulled their subsidies a couple of decades ago.

You're correct though in that the size of the market isn't necessary inline with the population. NZ seemingly has the highest car per head of capita ratio in the world and, along with Australia, is a relatively wealthy market with little or no brand loyalty. This could render it's market more attractive than a larger country where the average Joe drives a knock off 1963 Morris Oxford made from last week's baked bean can and costing 13 ruppees.

In 2013 we will see Ford, Citroen, VW, and maybe Mini in the WRC!

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Originally Posted by AndyRAC

You make some good and relevant points Sollitt;
The sort needs to grow, however, it needs to go to markets were there is a demand for it. The Far East, India, Brazil, etc all huge car markets, BUT is there much interest in Rallying? Not much point in going if all we get a few hundred spectators and a few sheep, e;g Jordan.
Conversely, Greece; The Acropolis is one of the classics - yet how important is Greece to the WRC Manufacturers? Same with Australia/NZ - both have great events, but are 'small fry' for the Manufacturers.

The sport has to be careful which path it takes - F1 can probably get away with going to places with 2 men & a dog, the WRC mustn't do the same.
Personally, make the sport stable first, and concentrate on the best events. Then think about spreading it's wings.

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This is a good point. Choosing events is no easy task, manufacturers want fewer events (which is a good idea to keep costs down) but they also want to go to markets that will potentially buy their vehicles but there is also a third consideration in that some events such as the classic Acropolis and 1000 Lakes should be kept in because winning these events still holds some weight and manufacturers can still boast about their car being good enough to win such a tough event.

Despite this promotional mess at the moment I think things might end up shaking themselves out for the better, but more by good luck than by good management. The IRC will probably die off after this year as it reverts to an FIA sanctioned European championship;

VW will be moving from SWRC to the WRC
Skoda will not have a home to go to with IRC folding but maybe VAG could be persuaded to carry on the SKODA project in the SWRC.
Proton are making a return to the SWRC this year.
Subaru still knock around in the PWRC for what it is worth and if the R4 an get on the pace of the S2000's then it would be great.
Ford and Citroen must be commended for keeping WRC going for so long and we can only hope VW and BMW put their hands in their pockets for a long term project.
Maybe Peugeot could be tempted to come to the SWRC for 2013 too.
Which may entice FIAT to produce a competitive S2000 car to compete in the SWRC.

The only problem is that S2000 is a not really what the manufacturers or the FIA want with the push to go to 1600cc as the premier formula. It is a shame as the S2000's could easily be made into the top tier of the sport, costs could be massively reduced and overnight we would bring all of those new manufacturers into the World Championship and have spectacular looking and sounding cars to watch.

So just when we are getting a good two tier World Championship, or a very good opportunity to knock through a few walls and make one big happy World Championship with loads of manufacturers, our short sighted governing body will make yet another change and the manufacturers will give up and go and spend their money making viral adverts for YouTube rather than going rallying.

We have already a Chinese tyre manufacturer in WRC so maybe the next new manufacturer could bee a Chinese manufacturer.

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Originally Posted by sollitt

Brazil, and any number of other suggested countries, might have a zillion people but if they have no interest in rallying a WRC round will not place the manufacturers branding in front of any more people. In fact you're more likely to drive away the committed viewers you've already got with a poorly run, unpopular event.

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That’s how I also see it. What’s the point to go to a country where there’s no legacy of rallying. There could be several hours of broadcasting on a free channel but if there isn’t any interest watching the broadcast or no spectators on stages, there’s no promotion. In a country where rallying doesn’t have any legacy, there should be lot of promotion on TV a long time before the event starts.

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Originally Posted by sollitt

A far better way to attract the attention of these populations is to have one of their nationals perform well/win at a historic and iconic event.

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This is the key question. I think the interest in France have increased by the success of Sebastian Loeb. I’ve also read on this forum that the sales of Citroen cars has increased when Petter was driving a Citroen.

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Originally Posted by sollitt

As an example, you could replicate the Tour de France out of Shanghai. Same format, same distance, same top cyclists. The locals wouldn't bat an eyelid and the event would come and go without a ripple. However if a Chinese national were to win the actual Tour de France it'd be major media and the whole country would know about it.

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Or even better, a Chinese winning Tour de France in Shanghai.


Or does the customers buy their cars by reports like tüv inspection reports or Autobild quality reports.

VdTÜV-Portal

TÜV inspection report (text in Finnish)
http://www2.hs.fi/extrat/autot/pdf/TUV_2012.pdf

Katsastukset aikavälillä heinäkuu 2010 - kesäkuu 2011 = Surveys run in July 2010 - June 2011
Isojen vikojen osuus = percentage of big failures
keskimääräinen ajomäärä = average mileage

Autobild quality report (text in Finnish)
http://www2.hs.fi/extrat/autot/pdf/a...ortti_2011.pdf

Rating: 1 = very good, 5 = very weak.
The quality of the report results are based on seven factors, explaining the car and
maintenance of the quality of service in Germany.
1. 8 610 vehicle user experience (GfK, a market research company's survey).
2. Back to invitations, or repair calls the number, severity of defects, information and service quality.
3. TÜV inspection report of the results.
4. Auto Bild magazine's 100 000 km of the duration of the test results.
5. Auto Bild magazine, reader feedback "error box" sites (9 000 posts).
6. Auto Bild-repair test results.
7. Warranty Terms and Conditions.
Source: Auto Bild 51/52 No. 2011, published in Germany, 23.12.2011.,AUTOBILD.DE - Testberichte - Automarkt - Autokauf

Most Chinese manufacturers only export substitutes of Japanese products. Is there any point of them using 1 of those at the moment in the WRC?

I understand the need for a pre-existing rally culture when staging a WRC event, but if the championship were to ever run in the USA I would be there in an instant. The problem is, there is absolutely NO promotion of the series over here. No TV package now that Eurosport has taken over promotion, no WRC events, no mention of rallying in racing news programs. Its a shame because theres is a fairly large fan base for rallying here. The rally america series has done a great job with the resources it has to organize events but its certainly not mainstream. Ken Block has helped get his brand and the WRC name out there but not nearly enough. If WRC were to have a decent TV package on a mainstream network I think it could take off. Us americans love extreme sports and it doesn't get much more extreme than WRC. Until then though I'll be stuck watching torrents and youtube videos the next day.

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Originally Posted by J4MES

The only problem is that S2000 is a not really what the manufacturers or the FIA want with the push to go to 1600cc as the premier formula. It is a shame as the S2000's could easily be made into the top tier of the sport, costs could be massively reduced and overnight we would bring all of those new manufacturers into the World Championship and have spectacular looking and sounding cars to watch.

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The boat was missed on that one I think. Probably if this formula had been adopted the costs would have gone up for those too but I am still missing them a bit from this years Monte. The turbo cars are still a little 'soft' in the way they are driven to my taste.

Current new road cars are mostly turbopowered, so I don´t think that manufactures want make non turbo race cars

What they make now:

VAG (vw,skoda,seat,audi) turbo 1.2 1.4 1.6 1.8 2.0 2.5 3.0 4.0
Ford turbo 1.0 1.6
BMW and Mini turbo 1.6 2.0
PSA (citroen/peugeot) turbo 1.6
Renault turbo 1.2
Fiat Chrysler turbo 1.4
GM (opel/vauxhall/chevrolet) turbo 1.4 1.6
Volvo turbo 1.6

Subaru 50/50 2.0 2.5

Hyundai/Kia NO turbo
Toyota NO turbo
Nissan NO turbo
Honda NO turbo
Proton NO turbo ?
Suzuki NO turbo
Mazda NO turbo
Mitsu NO turbo
almost all do some special model with turbo

I believe that most of current NO turbo road cars manufactures will change their policy soon, much lower CO2 with turbo

Some excellent points in sollitt's post above.

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Originally Posted by sollitt

Which is exactly why there shouldn't be a WRC round there.

We mustn't lose sight of the fact that, whilst it may be desirable to have manufacturer and corporate involvement, the WRC is first & foremost a sporting competition founded and grown on the backs of those countries and events where the sport is strong.

A lot is written here about the 'relevance' of WRC rounds running in certain countries suggesting that manufacturers interests would be better served by running in more populated regions with higher GDP.
The argument is flawed.

Regardless of the size of the market, a message in the wrong media will fail to hit the target. Would you advertise a tennis racquet in a golfing magazine?

Brazil, and any number of other suggested countries, might have a zillion people but if they have no interest in rallying a WRC round will not place the manufacturers branding in front of any more people. In fact you're more likely to drive away the committed viewers you've already got with a poorly run, unpopular event.

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Hence the failures of the Chinese round in the late 1990s and the old Brazilian round. I would also suggest Argentina has been lucky to survive for so long, given the poor entry lists there. At least now a good manufacturer entry is guaranteed for every round.

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Originally Posted by sollitt

Manufacturers would be far better served by dropping their blind belief in Scandanavian/European drivers and taking a whole world approach to recruitment and development. The FIA could assist by a return the rules that allowed manufacturers to score points with nominated locals, or specialists where advantageous.

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Potentially, you are right. However, is there not an extent to which the majority of top drivers will continue to come from Europe, given that the strength of the rallying scene in many European countries far outweighs that found elsewhere, thus producing more and better drivers from national championships? This has long been the case, in spite of many chances being given to drivers from elsewhere, and I can't see it changing. My main concern, rather than surrounding the areas from which new, young drivers come, is the lack of opportunity being given to such drivers even when they hail from countries where the sport is well-known and established. Domestic championships seem to have become increasingly poor training-grounds.

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Originally Posted by AndyRAC

Personally, make the sport stable first, and concentrate on the best events. Then think about spreading it's wings.

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And make national championships genuinely relevant again, as they were 30-odd years ago.