Most of what I said comes from the Qur'an and is Islamic law.Quote:
Originally Posted by donKey jote
If they don't believe nor follow the teachings of the Qur'an they aren't really "real Muslims" are they?
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Most of what I said comes from the Qur'an and is Islamic law.Quote:
Originally Posted by donKey jote
If they don't believe nor follow the teachings of the Qur'an they aren't really "real Muslims" are they?
Most? Some.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koz
Honour killings are not part of Islam, you'll find Hindu's, Sikh's and Christians practice it too in some parts of the world.
Honour killings used to be done in Britain too up to Victorian times by people who would consider themselves good Christians. That was up until women who got pregnant outside marriage were declared insane and locked up in asylums which was extremely common up to the '60s.
The term Jihad is similar in usage to crusade. It is not uncommon for the both crusades and jihads to be declared in a non-military scenario like against povery, ignorance or inequality. The term Jihad also refers to any attempt at self-improvement too. Most Muslims view Jihad as being about personal improvement.
A little thinking would reveal that if all Muslims thought Jihad meant killing any non-Muslim and that was their duty, with 1.5 billion Muslims around the world there'd be a hell of a lot of killing going on. Think about why that isn't the case.
As for capital/corporal punishment, many Muslims do take them literally but have you ever read the Torah or Bible and what punishments are in there?
Not a part of Islam?Quote:
Originally Posted by Malbec
You're kidding right?
You are correct that honour killings exists in other religions too, but it is most prevalent in Islam.
Sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malbec
Are you saying that the notion of Jihad does not involve war on infidel?
I am not talking about "most" muslims, I would say most are, like in all religions, hypocrites. The fellow was talking about "real Islam" which I assume to mean the teachings of the Qur'an.
Are you seriously comparing ancient teachings to what is happening in this modern world today?Quote:
Originally Posted by Malbec
That, sir, is absurd.
Honour killings do not exist in any religion. It is not in any holy book. I'm sure you can differentiate between something that is intrinsically part of a religion (like worshipping Jesus for a Christian) and something cultural that people happen to practice in a particular part of the world (like honour killings) regardless of religious affiliation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koz
It is prevalent in parts of the Middle East stretching all the way east to India. That is why Hindus, Christians and Sikhs do it too. Muslims from outside this area don't do it.
Yes, I'm saying that the notion of Jihad does not ONLY involve war on infidels. I guess what I said about the usage of the word 'crusade' is lost on you. Just as the true meaning of the word 'Crusade' refers to a war to rid Muslims from the holy sites of the middle east but is used nowadays for any campaign against a whole variety of targets, jihad has a wide spread of meanings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koz
One of my colleagues who is quite religious told me that he has decided to launch a jihad against his bulging waistline. You tell me what he meant?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malbec
Of course. This is in no way a religious text right?Quote:
him) and said : Allah's Messenger, I have wronged myself ; I have committed adultery and I earnestly desire that you should purify me. He turned him away. On the following day, he (Ma'iz) again came to him and said : Allah's Messenger, I have committed adultery. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) turned him away for the second time, and sent him to his people saying: Do you know if there is anything wrong with his mind. They denied of any such thing in him and said: We do not know him but as a wise good man among us, so far as we can judge. He (Ma'iz) came for the third time, and he (the Holy Prophet) sent him as he had done before. He asked about him and they informed him that there was nothing wrong with him or with his mind. When it was the fourth time, a ditch was dug for him and he (the Holy Prophet) pronounced judg- ment about him and he wis stoned. He (the narrator) said : There came to him (the Holy Prophet) a woman from Ghamid and said : Allah's Messenger, I have committed adultery, so purify me. He (the Holy Prophet) turned her away. On the following day she said : Allah's Messenger, Why do you turn me away ? Perhaps, you turn me away as you turned away Ma'iz. By Allah, I have become pregnant. He said: Well, if you insist upon it, then go away until you give birth to (the child). When she was delivered she came with the child (wrapped) in a rag and said : Here is the child whom I have given birth to. He said : Go away and suckle him until you wean him. When she had weaned him, she came to him (the Holy Prophet) with the child who was holding a piece of bread in his hand. She said : Allah's Apostle, here is he as I have weaned him and he eats food. He (the Holy Prophet) entrusted the child to one of the Muslims and then pronounced punishment. And she was put in a ditch up to her chest and he commanded people and they stoned her. Khalid b Walid came forward with a stone which he flung at her head and there spurted blood on the face of Khalid and so he abused her. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) heard his (Khalid's) curse that he had huried upon her. Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: Khalid, be gentle. By Him in Whose Hand is my life, she has made such a repentance that even if a wrongful tax-collector were to repent, he would have been forgiven. Then giving command regarding her, he prayed over her and she was buried.
Sahih Muslim - Hadith No: 4206
Yeah, do you remember all those people cheering at 9/11 and at other terrorist attacks?Quote:
Originally Posted by Malbec
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malbec
I don't know him, but who knows what it could imply... Maybe him waging war against himself at the gym... Or maybe him planning to wage war and blow up the McDonalds that provided him with fatty food?
That isn't honour killing. No wonder you have problems understanding my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koz
That verse talks specifically about the punishment for adultery. I don't agree with it but its specifically for adultery. One of the Ten commandments also bans adultery.
Honour killing is the killing of someone in the family because they stain the family honour. It doesn't have to be about adultery. Many people are killed simply because they don't obey the family about something. There is no religious text in the world that says you may punish a member of your family by death if they stain the family honour.
All or some? I saw some Palestinians and extremists elsewhere cheering. Do they represent all Muslims? I saw many others simply shocked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koz
There are articles about how Americans and Brits commented on facebook that the Tsunami that hit Japan was a great thing that was payback for ww2. Do they represent all Americans and Brits?
Maybe if you start thinking a bit deeper you'd start to differentiate between extremists (and they are in every part of society) and the mainstream. I doubt it though from your posts so far.
No it implies your understanding of the word is wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koz
Thank God I'm an Atheist.
[youtube]q_0kFU7IfPM[/youtube]Quote:
Originally Posted by Malbec
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Is the pope catholic?Quote:
Originally Posted by donKey jote