Rally Spectator Safety

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Originally Posted by sollitt

In fact, in nearly 40 years involvement in the sport, by far the majority of incidents I've seen involving spectators being hit by rally cars have ocurred in organised areas or areas where there are large numbers of people gathered together.
Indeed I cannot recall such an incident involving a lone spectator at all.
The freedom to move about and react quickly is the adventurous spectators security blanket. Long may it be so!

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I'm sorry to tell You that but it's not true. In last three years I was twice very close to a deadly accident and in both cases it happened with lonely small group of people. Once three (all dead), once something like five (two dead). In second case they were even not just next to the road but were hit by a car which prior that hit a pole and changed it's rolling direction.

It's true that they all were in extremely dangerous places. Mostly they were totally unexperienced spectators who were on their first event (except one in the second case who was just crazy fan). This is what the discussion is about. I agree with You that the rules for spectators should not be extremely strict (I always go somewhere out of crowded areas too) but You need to keep some actions for common crowds of people. They don't have experience, often don't see even basic physic laws and moreover they are largely drunk. But as I said before the areas for them must be made that way to be worth visiting. If they shall go to a place fifty meters from The road behind trees, they will run to all directions and that is a problem because these are the most dangerous groups of spectators.

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Originally Posted by MrJan

That's the spirit, kill off a dying sport.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

How would that solve anything? Is there any correlation between amount spent on an activity and level of common sense displayed by the person making that spend? I could go on.

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Charging speccies and therefore reducing their numbers won't harm the sport at all, speccies are just a headache for organiser they bring nothing to the sport other than hassle / cost and litter.

The entrants pay to entertain spectator parasites, why not marshal instead of spectate or would that require a bit of effort / commitment?

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Originally Posted by sollitt

What a bunch of wowsers and sanctimonious do gooders you people are.
One of the attractions of attending and watching the WRC rounds is the ability to get right up close to the action.

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And what about the crew of the car that kills a clueless spectator?

What about their feelings?

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

The entrants pay to entertain spectator parasites, why not marshal instead of spectate or would that require a bit of effort / commitment?

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The sponsors pay the entrants to advertise, you can't do that when no one wants to watch the sport. Even someone like Perez (who pays his own way) will have had a half decent income from the number of VK bobble hats (alright, baseball caps) that he's sold. The less spectators, the less hats/scarfs/coats sold.

Commitment is the main reason why I don't marshall, there aren't that many events that fit in with other things that I'm doing (either work, football or sprinting), certainly not those within a distance that I'm willing to drive and spend fuel money on. Last year I did the Wyedean, half a day at the Somerset Stages and one event on Epynt. Epynt is out of the question to marshall because I'd have to wake up before I went to bed to get there, on the times that I go to spectate we usually miss the first couple of stages anyway.

And the notion of entrants paying to entertain is just ridiculous, the drivers pay for their own enjoyment. If I said that did sprints for the good of other people then I'd be lying, I do it because I enjoy it.

No they do not, you are in La La land if you think rally crews get enough sponsorship to cover the event, even a Nat B forest event will cost over 1k to do. AFAIK most VK hats are given free to marshals, but you'd not know that because your're too bone idle.

So basically lazy then? But you're quite happy for others to marshal bends so you can watch?

Speccies = freeloaders who bring nothing but hassle, they should pay for the privilege or naff off.

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

No they do not, you are in La La land if you think rally crews get enough sponsorship to cover the event, even a Nat B forest event will cost over 1k to do. AFAIK most VK hats are given free to marshals, but you'd not know that because your're too bone idle.

So basically lazy then? But you're quite happy for others to marshal bends so you can watch?

Speccies = freeloaders who bring nothing but hassle, they should pay for the privilege or naff off.

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Speccies do pay for the privelege, just not £20 a stage. At the lower levels of course sponsors don't offer much, most people just use the car to advertise their own business. But at the higher levels there is cash going in, and without that the sport at the highest level will cease to exist. When that happens people become less interested in the lower levels, therefore less people spectate, less people get into the sport and choose to marshall, less people get into the sport and choose to drive etc. etc.

Not quite sure how not being able to afford time/petrol/hotels equates to laziness though, you'll have to explain that one to me step by step.

Incidentally next time you're out marshalling try asking your fellow marshalls whether they spectated before they got into marshalling.

Edit: Oh and please quote me where I said that sponsors 'cover' the costs of an event. It may be through garage space, advice, parts, discounts etc. but every little helps, doesn't it.

He's right though in the sense that more and more organisers are adopting the Bernie Ecclestone school of thought: better to have 1000 people paying 20 quid, than 10000 people paying 2 quid, or 100000 people paying nothing. This is a very dangerous development for the long term health of the sport.

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Originally Posted by MrJan

Commitment is the main reason why I don't marshall

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err

bone idle like I said, if it was a money issue you'd have said so first, you didn't so don't try and move the goalposts now.

Tele pays at the top level not bobble haters clogging up the surrounding roads etc and generally making a nuisance of themselves dropping litter and the like.

Speccies could all naff off and it would do nothing but help the sport of rallying.

Don't go to the Wyedean stay at home.

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

err

bone idle like I said, if it was a money issue you'd have said so first, you didn't so don't try and move the goalposts now.

Tele pays at the top level not bobble haters clogging up the surrounding roads etc and generally making a nuisance of themselves dropping litter and the like.

Speccies could all naff off and it would do nothing but help the sport of rallying.

Don't go to the Wyedean stay at home.

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I did say at first.

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there aren't that many events that fit in with other things that I'm doing (either work, football or sprinting), certainly not those within a distance that I'm willing to drive and spend fuel money on

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And does tele really pay for the top level? You may want to tailor your response according to this weeks news regarding the lack of a promoter.

It's funny really, in the sprinting/hillclimb world all the drivers are happy for people to come and watch, spending time to talk to the public throughout the day and answer any questions, usually with a view to encouraging them into the sport. Rallying seems completely different, most of the drivers hate spectators and would rather insult them than offer advice.

No you did not, first is the first thing you stated not the last thing! My 8 year old wouldn't make sure a glaring error.

They need the tele or why should the teams spend what they do just to get coverage, the lack of a promoter is one thing, lack of tele is an all together different kettle of fish. Look at F1 it is tele that has raised the budgets pre Bernie teams could win races out of lumber yards.

I don't mind speccies when competing as once in a blue moon they may help you back on the track. And 99% of rally folk are nothing but friendly to speccies as long as they don't get in the way. Would you be so keen to chew the fat with one if they had leant on your car and damaged it, same as if they made us late into a control by cluttering up the countryside. It's when organising I wish they'd all naff off. They bring very little to the sport yet require massive amounts of work to deal with them.