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One can sneeringly refer to Harry Turtledove, or one can see this as counterfactual history, ie the use the "what if" scenarios to gain an insight into the significance of events and decisions - a technique adopted by some modern historians but vilified by the traditional school.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Capps
Having nearly a shelf or so full of books by the good Dr. Turtledove and finding most -- but certainly not all by an means -- rather interesting and usually quite entertaining, I was unaware of there being any prohibitions here regarding sneering at "fictive history." "Counterfactual history" is simply a notion concocted by some of the more recent members within and outside the history community that is derived from good old-fashioned work known as analysis upon which historians -- traditional and modern (whatever than means) -- have always based their interpretations. Historians have always pondered the various "what if?" aspects in their efforts to attempt to arrive at some idea as to the "why" part of interpretation.Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Type
The use of the term "vilify" would suggest that someone has an opinion that is somewhat negative towards the way historians actually work. Of course, there is the point that writing "counterfactual history" does allow one to use what may have learned in the classroom are picked along the way while conducting research. However one slices it, "counterfactual history" is still fiction and not history when presented given that it is literally counter to the facts at hand.
It was not my intention to sneer, especially at dear ol' Harry, but I will now.
........OK!
Was thinking more about this over the weekend and then when I saw the rumours of Kubica to Ferrari on BBC Sport Gossip the other day, which I did find strange considering he has not proved he his fit yet or has the same speed as before. Of course Fangio missed a whole season in 1952 through injury and it didn't seem to affect him.
It got me thinking about Kubica. Let's say he crashed his rally car further down the road, the armco didn't pierce the car and he walked away absolutely fine.
So, Kubica would drive for Renault again in 2011. Considering Petrov and Heidfeld managed a podium each at the start of the year, I would expect Kubica to have been well in a mix, possibly for a victory, certainly a 2nd place in those two races. After that, Renault have gone backwards, however with Kubica I believe he would have been a comfortable 7th in the championship ahead of Rosberg and Schumacher.
For 2012, I believe he would have replaced Felipe Massa at Ferrari. His talent and stock was so high that they would have paid Massa out of his final year to get him onboard.
I have to agree with you there.
A quick read of an article just now prompts me to ask what others think the outcome would have been of a great 'what if' — what if Ford had bought Ferrari in 1963?
We would probably never have seen the GT40, which would have been a major let down. I also think that eventually Ford would have sold it off to someone else, probably Fiat as Ford went downhill for a while after that.
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Interested in the Vanwall musings, what if they'd waited another year to watch what Lotus and BRM were up to? This 62 attempted comeback model that Surtees raced sporadically was closer to 59 Cooper emulation in design than the changes that were about to happen.
1994? Are you kidding me, schumacher was cheated out of racing/getting points in 4 races because of how dominant he was.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
Can we please avoid emotional unsubstantiated allegations such as this.Quote:
Originally Posted by vhatever
The record for 1994 shows
British GP - Disqualified for ignoring a black flag
German GP - Retired with engine failure
Belgian GP - Disqualified for excessive skid block wear
Australian GP - Collision with Hill.
Oh my bad, I thought this was motorsport history, not motorsport fantasy. 1994 was just FIA trying to screw over schumacher, the end. Just like this year when they tried screwing over vettel with bogus mid season bans.