Promoters deal with low attendance in '11??

No manufacturer offered a GRE. Baretzky from Audi has been talking about one for at least two years, and doesn't have one.

Honda wanted to build a V6 to demonstrate relevance to their consumer products.

So IndyCar writes a spec to permit both. The alternative was to dictate a program to their only investing partner, who may not have seen it in their best interest to continue participation.

Re-introducing variables is required to interest both hardcore and casual fans. A new spec, high downforce car is not going to accomplish that, even with minor differences between aero kits. Engine competition will, IndyCar invites it, and that includes 4 cylinder turbos.

The problem is a lack of other partners to make an equivalent investment.

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Originally Posted by Starter

There might be a few anti-trust implications there.

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As NASCAR is a sanctioning body, it may have limited anti-trust protection like the NFL has, but not the absolute anti-trust protection that MLB has.

An example of this in action is the 1985 lawsuit, United States Football League v. National Football League. The USFL felt the NFL had a monopoly by operating teams in most major stadiums and having broadcasting contracts with all 3 major networks, and that this was preventing the USFL from transitioning to a fall schedule to compete directly with the NFL. The jury found that the NFL did have a monopoly, but since the USFL had begun its fall transition before the case went to court, the USFL was only entitled to $1 of damages.

So for someone to sue NASCAR for anti-trust, they have to prove NASCAR is keeping them off television and restricting their access to major tracks.

If NASCAR were to take over IndyCar they would be taken to court not for anti-trust issues, but more likely for a sanity hearing.

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

HMS promoted this years event more than they have the previous years. You couldn't tune in a radio station without hearing the ads. 500 spots on local TV. Drivers were everywhere doing promotions.

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If that is the case, then they truly are hurting...my bad for just dumping a lot of this on ISC. Their MO with Michigan was to not really push the IRL tickets the way they did the NASCAR tickets, and it ended up showing.....

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

The problem is the product. In an International City like Miami not many people care about an Spec Oval Racing Series.

I talk with a lot of people over the weekend including teams, PR people and media and most agreed with my theory. Run the race on the Road Course at Night and you will easily get 30K +

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I think Miami sports fans are a small number compared to the population. Look at the lack of attendance that every sport that isnt' U of M football or the Dolphins gets treated at times...

If the HEAT don't sell out every game, it wouldn't shock me....Miami area sports fans don't have the most sterling record of being there week in week out no matter what...

Still...12k in fans is an embarassment for everyone involved, and they missed a decent race.....no one can say there wasn't action.

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Originally Posted by Enjun Pullr

No manufacturer offered a GRE. Baretzky from Audi has been talking about one for at least two years, and doesn't have one.

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Baretzky disagrees...

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Baretzky is frustrated that IndyCar failed to embrace the 'GRE' for its 2012 formula. Earlier this year Randy Bernard told me not a single manufacturer was ready to proceed with a 'GRE' in time for 2012, but Baretzky refutes that assertion.

"I told Randy in March at least three of these engines would be ready to run next year. I said, 'Randy you can have at least three engines. They are on the way.' I knew that at the time because the companies had told me about their plans. Each of Citroen, Ford and BMW have these engines. These three engines will be homologated by January 1st in the coming year and six months later the main components will be on the market and available to anyone who wants to buy them.

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The full article is available at: http://gordonkirby.com/categories/co..._is_no257.html

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The problem is a lack of other partners to make an equivalent investment.

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IMO, the problem is the IRL's aversion to real change.

"Randy you can have at least three engines. They are on the way."

"...Citroen, Ford and BMW have these engines..."

Three engines, 1.6L turbocharged, introduced for 2011 WRC competition at the Paris Auto show. 900 HP. If you bolt all three of them together, that is. They are stock block 300 HP engines. Ulrich doesn't even have one of those.

You think you can make 750 HP out of the stock architecture of a 1.6 L Ford Ecoboost engine block? With time to construct bespoke engines and astronomical budgets, it will be a snap for F1.

All of which is irrelevant to Indycar, unless you want to race Delta Wings. Which is irrelevant to IndyCar.

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Originally Posted by Enjun Pullr

"Randy you can have at least three engines. They are on the way."

"...Citroen, Ford and BMW have these engines..."

Three engines, 1.6L turbocharged, introduced for 2011 WRC competition at the Paris Auto show. 900 HP. If you bolt all three of them together, that is. They are stock block 300 HP engines. Ulrich doesn't even have one of those.

You think you can make 750 HP out of the stock architecture of a 1.6 L Ford Ecoboost engine block? With time to construct bespoke engines and astronomical budgets, it will be a snap for F1.

All of which is irrelevant to Indycar, unless you want to race Delta Wings. Which is irrelevant to IndyCar.

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You are correct. All of this is irrelevant to change for the future- which the IRL will likely never see.

Well, that reads to me like the "We need the Delta" philosophy, or the "Let it all burn" philosophy. Sorry for my reluctance to accept either.

The point is that no manufacturer has a suitable GRE to install in an Indycar, and none have expressed an interest in funding the development and supply of one. Or a bespoke V6 to match Honda's.

That's cool, Rally cars are fun to watch. Particularly the Ford Fiesta. Duratec 2.0L turbo, run in 2009 at Pike's Peak with 800 HP.

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Originally Posted by Enjun Pullr

That's cool, Rally cars are fun to watch. Particularly the Ford Fiesta. Duratec 2.0L turbo, run in 2009 at Pike's Peak with 800 HP.

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They are. But they (rally cars) are not filling stadiums with race fans, either. My opinion is the thing has to be star driven. Like it or not, we live in a TMZ world, where people are interested in celebrity. IndyCar/IRL has hitched thier wagons to Danica, but there is no other driver poised to have the level of off track success that she has enjoyed. She has not lived up to the hype machine, for whatever reason, onthe track. I think they'll come to see 'the pretty girl kick the boy's asses', as long as she does that. At that point, it becomes about product, keeping the people hooked on the sport.

The point wasn't about the popularity of WRC ( big overseas), the X Games, or Tanner Foust. It was about the engine.

Hypothetical: Kyle Bush races IndyCar.

His 2011 season begins with little testing because of conflicting race schedules, but Bush gets some pre-season laps at Barber. The top seats are spoken for, so his sponsors buys a full ride with D&R.

Justin Wilson fills him with road racing skillz, and the attendance and TV views are up 30% for the opener at St. Pete. Bush P 16.

Next race, Tags takes him out. Bush punches Tags. The western world is in a tumult.

MO MENTUM. People are watching, Bush earns P11 at the next race. Jury is deliberating...

Indy. One practice crash, qualifies 2 mph off the pace. Lots of cameras, lots more Nascar fans. Everlast signs on and gives him a pair of gloves.

Bush P6. Nascar Jane to Nascar Joe..."Do the red cars always win?"

On goes the season, maybe some decent results, with great luck a podium. Lots of questions. Less people sticking around to hear the answers. Nascar fans realize the deck is stacked, or begin to question the magnificence of their heroes.

Boastful IndyCar fans alienate the newcomers, even though nobody else has a shot in a D&R car either. By season's end, Kyle Bush = Paul Tracy.

The entertainment value is unpredictable competition. That requires variables in equipment, to challenge the skill levels of the drivers and teams. Drivers like Bush are recognized for their success in competition, and perhaps they become stars.

It doesn't work the other way around, not for long. I think Sammy would agree, and Danica will continue to learn.