Poll on who was at fault

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

For your information, Mark Webber has absolutely nothing to do with Brits.

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Over simplistic view from kool aid overdose???


I must admit, that I ran out of the good stuff and just got plain dumbutt lazy, and thought I would try out some red bull piss sunday

I had refused for several years to even look at a can of it, after they paid good money and took my hero, Snotnot Speeed and his pink toenails, and put him to driving not cars, but trucks, in nascar....where those pissers are still paying him to drive

In any event, as to the poll, it does not matter what posters think, drivers think, or anyone else--even Seb

The only ones who have a vote that really count are not Mark, but Marko Hellnot and his crew of Austrians-not Australians--and they already voted, so it seems.......

Indeed, after mixing a batch of the good stuff, :beer: , I see a new chassis for Webbo, painted in the classic red bull colors, looks like a large truck......


.and Webbo's new team mate...scot

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

And I say again: we just want to know the general consensus. There is nothing said so far that the general consensus is correct, or wrong. But to say it is bullpoop is extraordinarily dictatorial. It simply means one does not care what other people's opinions are.

For the record, I think it is Vettel's fault.

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I'll give you ONE more chance before I report you for trolling :rolleyes:

I SAY again that I have no problem with people voicing their opinions, I merely feel that even if 80% of people say Webber is at fault I don't feel that this proves anything to the point where you can label it as fact.

Like I said, continue with this rubbish that I'm trying to say that people can't have their opinion and I'm not going to react, I'm going to report you.

I think they both had fault in the incident, Vettel for his slight nudge across into Webbers path and also Webber for not seeing the upcoming danger against his teammate and just moving slighty wider to allow for any mistakes into the next corner.

So I am on the fence :D



50/50

Vettel put himself in danger by diving low in the first place, where there was no room. Mark didn't move over when Vettel got alongside him because they were racing for the lead! And of course Mark had no idea Vettel would turn directly into him so far before the turn... I'm sure Mark was expecting Vettel to hold his line and try to outbrake him.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Funny that you take my comments out of context. All I am saying by citing examples from the past is that the majority is not always right. I mean ffs a majority of people in the US voted that moron Dubya in. Are you going to say they were right? I'm not against people having opinions, I'm merely against the idea that because the majority agree one something that they're somehow proven right.

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An opinion is an opinion and is accepted as such. The problem is that so many people think it was Sebs fault that it suggests the majority may be correct. Then we see the footage which shows Seb crashing into Mark.

And it's not just us armchair experts either.

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"Where should Mark have gone?" Lewis Hamilton - who had a box-seat view of the incident that unfolded in front of him - told German television Sky. "I think the gap he left him was big enough. Even though Jenson and I both want to win, we also have respect for each other. I'm really happy that I have such a good relationship with my teammate."

Said Mercedes' Nico Rosberg: "Mark didn't move at all. For me, it was clearly Sebastian's fault."

Niki Lauda said the 22-year-old had been "much too aggressive", and former driver Alex Wurz noted in Turkey: "All my racing colleagues are in agreement that it was Vettel's fault."

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In fact, apart from the Red Bull Management, it's only Eddie Jordan that seems to think Seb was in the right.

Vettel and the scum pulling the strings at RBR are to blame.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I'll give you ONE more chance before I report you for trolling :rolleyes:

I SAY again that I have no problem with people voicing their opinions, I merely feel that even if 80% of people say Webber is at fault I don't feel that this proves anything to the point where you can label it as fact.

Like I said, continue with this rubbish that I'm trying to say that people can't have their opinion and I'm not going to react, I'm going to report you.

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I actually agree that a poll proves nothing. If 80% agree that Vettel was at fault it doen't make it a fact. It simple makes it a fact that 20% of the people on that poll have very twisted logic, and/or bias against Webber. :D


What sporting regulation did Webber violate?

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Originally Posted by skc

An opinion is an opinion and is accepted as such. The problem is that so many people think it was Sebs fault that it suggests the majority may be correct. Then we see the footage which shows Seb crashing into Mark.

In fact, apart from the Red Bull Management, it's only Eddie Jordan that seems to think Seb was in the right.

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Helmut Marko and the whole Red Bull team has to protect their investment, the chosen one, the golden boy, the wunderkid, the next Schumi. This accident has exposed how obvious it is that he is nr.1 guy in that team.
Perfect explanation of the situation in the following link.

http://www.autosport.com/features/article.php/id/2842

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In Turkey, a lot of things didn't add up to a level playing, no matter what the team might say. Afterwards, Helmut Marko, Mateschitz's eyes and ears in the team, came down squarely on Vettel's side and it was obvious from the body language of the major players in the team that Webber was not flavour of the month. Which was odd considering the accident itself was solely Vettel's fault.

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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84073

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When asked for his opinion on the Red Bull Racing accident, Goss said: "I've only read that neither driver says they are to blame. There is some good footage of the incident, and you just have to look at it and make your own mind up. But I think Vettel had enough room on the track."

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Making it as obvious as possible without actually saying it, that vettel was to blame.

Here are some pictures for you.

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/7280/fghgf.jpg

You know, it is getting quite laughable that some people are still saying this is not 100% vettels fault. Show some objectivity. I know your ego is not letting you backtrack on your comments, but some people are really looking quite silly.

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Originally Posted by airshifter

I actually agree that a poll proves nothing. If 80% agree that Vettel was at fault it doen't make it a fact.

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That's ALL I've been trying to say. Nothing more nothing less.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

This is pointless. Most of you guys were in agreement that all was hunky dory when Lewis Hamilton cut that chicane in Spa in 2007. So to say that a majority agreement means something is complete bullpoop

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Exactly what I said in my first post and all I've tried to say throughout this thread.

How or why does a Hamilton incident have anything at all to do with this incident?

You claim you simply want people to "agree to disagree" but what you are actually implying over and over is that the 80% is wrong and you are right. Then you wonder why people oppose that view.

I've been much more critical of Mark than Sebastian, and at times I think he has been a dirty driver. Same with many drivers. BUT I try to be objective and look at any incident on an individual basis. Based on this incident and the sporting regulations, Sebastian caused a collosion, which could have been investigated by the stewards. (why they never investigate inter-team violations is beyond me and a long subject) But Mark did absolutely nothing illegal that I can find in any regulation.

You don't want a poll, that's fine. Valve does want a poll. If you are suggesting everyone has a right to their own opinion you should have no problem with Valve requesting a poll.

Or should we have a non official poll considering whether Valve has the right to exercise his opinion and request a poll? ;)