some strong words from randy

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Who is being driven away by the name "Indy"? Again, YOU seem to be the only one who give a d@mn about the name, AND YOU ARE WATCHING THE SERIES. So who exactly is being driven away? This form of racing has been called IndyCar since before any of us here were born, and probably before our parents too. Why would you go changing that and cause confusion in the marketplace? That is the LAST thing we need right now.

And the series was NEVER refered to as USAC or CART by the general public. Most called it IndyCar. So much so that (as I pointed out to you in the other thread) the promoters of the Toronto and Austrailia races decided to keep the name "Indy" even when technically they were not IndyCars racing there.

Your personal hatred for the name "Indy" is not a reason to drop it. You have presented absolutely no evidence that it will help anything. How about until you can come up with a convincing, or at least logical, argument.

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Technically the cars in Toronto after 95 were not "Indy"cars? Spritiually and their technical DNA would say they were tho....

Really, they call the series what they like, but for anyone to hide the fact they are Indycars is a braindead idea, and I don't think that is what Bernard wants. I just think he wants to dump the IRL name and give the series a new look. No one will stop calling them Indycars though.

You have to understand though Chuck, some people are just haters of the whole series....disguising themselves as concerned fans...

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Originally Posted by dataman1

How about this:

Change the name of the sanctioning body to "Indycar"
Change the name of the top level series to "IZOD Cup"
Change the name of the development series to "(insert sponsor's name series"
Then add a new series using open wheel trucks and call them " ????? Truck series"

Just having a little fun.

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Ouch!!! :D Btw, Lousada, you picked the perfect open-wheel truck!!!

Seriously, how about "Indy Racing Group" (IRG) or "IndyCar Racing Group" (ICRG)? Anyway, it's not deal breaker, it's just the sanctioning body's name.

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Technically the cars in Toronto after 95 were not "Indy"cars? Spritiually and their technical DNA would say they were tho....

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The argument could be made that in '96 they were the same. But from '97 on the cars racing at the Molson INDY Toronto were not the same cars that ran in the Indianapolis 500. So, no they were not IndyCars.

I do get your point though.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

The argument could be made that in '96 they were the same. But from '97 on the cars racing at the Molson INDY Toronto were not the same cars that ran in the Indianapolis 500. So, no they were not IndyCars.

I do get your point though.

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IN 97, and 98 even, Lolas and Reynards DID run at Indy, and they ran in Toronto. Not just the exact cars.

Lets face it though Chuck, no one would look even at a Lola in 2002 and NOT call it an Indycar. It was called Champ Car eventually, but the reality is DNA, size and style of car paid homage to the Indy 500 in the layout, size and appearence. The lay person wouldn't know the difference and that was why the two series model as was laid out by the wizard at 16th and Georgetown confused the marketplace and eventually diluted it....

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

IN 97, and 98 even, Lolas and Reynards DID run at Indy, and they ran in Toronto. Not just the exact cars.

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No, this is not correct. In '97 the rules changed and you had to run a Dallara, G-Force, or Riley&Scott. No Lolas nor Reynards were allowed after '96.

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Lets face it though Chuck, no one would look even at a Lola in 2002 and NOT call it an Indycar. It was called Champ Car eventually, but the reality is DNA, size and style of car paid homage to the Indy 500 in the layout, size and appearence. The lay person wouldn't know the difference

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I agree with that totally.

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

and that was why the two series model as was laid out by the wizard at 16th and Georgetown confused the marketplace and eventually diluted it....

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Sure TG could have done things differently. However, the CART boys could have as well. They could have shown up at Indy in '96, qualified with the X number of fastest times, and blown up the whole dumb 25-8 rule thing. That would have forced TG into a position where he probably would have had to face the music, allow the fastest 33 no matter where they were from, and the IRL probably collapses right there. There are almost always two sides to every decision.

But I REALLY don't want to get into a whole IRL vs CART deal here, there's PLENTY of other topics that have devolved into that.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

No, this is not correct. In '97 the rules changed and you had to run a Dallara, G-Force, or Riley&Scott. No Lolas nor Reynards were allowed after '96.

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The new formula with Dallara, G-Froce and R and S came along for the 97 Indy 500. So the first 2 years the cars were the same in theory, ok...correct. A minor point.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Sure TG could have done things differently. However, the CART boys could have as well. They could have shown up at Indy in '96, qualified with the X number of fastest times, and blown up the whole dumb 25-8 rule thing. That would have forced TG into a position where he probably would have had to face the music, allow the fastest 33 no matter where they were from, and the IRL probably collapses right there. There are almost always two sides to every decision.

But I REALLY don't want to get into a whole IRL vs CART deal here, there's PLENTY of other topics that have devolved into that.

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The CART guys probably figured The family wouldn't let Tony spent all that money propping up the IRL. They were only 15 years too late...

I think if they showed up in 96 and blew up the 25-8 in thing in theory, the reality is they couldn't have reached Tony. He would have allowed the 8 fastest CART guys and the other 17 could go pound sand. The harsh reality is anyone dopey enough to create another series in the manner Tony did to "protect" the 500 wasn't a reasonable man to start with...

Folks it is over. King George has been dethroned.
Most of us realize the current state of affairs is not really working and we all have been calling for change; well pretty well all.
So Randy comes in and is at least looking at changes but realizes because of the economy things have to be done rather slowly.
So let us give the guy a chance instead of complaining because he is trying to do something instead of the status quo which is not and has not been working.
Sure he may make mistakes but so does everyone. We just better hope he does not make many.
But please stop navel gazing and rehashing for the umpteenth time the same old arguements.

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Originally Posted by Easy Drifter

Folks it is over. King George has been dethroned.
Most of us realize the current state of affairs is not really working and we all have been calling for change; well pretty well all.
So Randy comes in and is at least looking at changes but realizes because of the economy things have to be done rather slowly.
So let us give the guy a chance instead of complaining because he is trying to do something instead of the status quo which is not and has not been working.
Sure he may make mistakes but so does everyone. We just better hope he does not make many.
But please stop navel gazing and rehashing for the umpteenth time the same old arguements.

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He is dethroned...but to see people advocating what he did worked or was right is very maddening....it is proof positive that those who don't learn from an experience are doomed to repeat it.

Somehow Randy has instinctively understood this, and he is looking to change the "channel"...or at least dump the IRL moniker....

I am not sure if it is a big deal...but perceptions are how you sell the sport, and the perception of the IRL isn't a good one among race fans.

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Originally Posted by dataman1

How about this:

Change the name of the sanctioning body to "Indycar"
Change the name of the top level series to "IZOD Cup"

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Yes, we need to make it even more confusing for people.

"Honey, lets go watch the Izod Cup Race". Huh???

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Originally Posted by Scotty G.

Yes, we need to make it even more confusing for people.

"Honey, lets go watch the Izod Cup Race". Huh???

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I think he was poking fun at something Scott...
No matter...I am with you in that they are Indycars and we shouldn't ever change that name, but changing the IRL to ....something may not be THAT bad.....as long as the name makes sense and is natural..