Interesting. I think we need are more tracks that are laid out like Phoenix & Nazareth, or else Milwaukee & New Hampshire.Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_andrew
good links in your sig - call_me_andrew
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Interesting. I think we need are more tracks that are laid out like Phoenix & Nazareth, or else Milwaukee & New Hampshire.Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_andrew
good links in your sig - call_me_andrew
the nascar boom is over, why else would they be trying so hard to get a overrated driver who never learned how to draft and make a pass in their series to save it. The empty seats just keep growing at nascar races while the tv ratings continue to drop. Kansas ratings were bad but considering it was on a saturday and abc did virtually no promotion it wasn't a disaster. Empty seats at tracks like bristol and daytona are a disaster for nascar though.
just curios...did you happen to see the stands at Kansas?Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePI2
Ya...empty Seats at a NASCAR track...their Empty seats scenario is selling only 150000 seats out of 160000 available at Daytona, and their ratings are 10 to 14 times the IRL's even on their worst day.Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePI2
Boy...I would HATE to be failing like NASCAR.
Boys...there is a recession on.....in case you forgot. The economy gets going, and those seats will fill up again....
FWIW the Kansas final was .7
*thats the thing MarkINO.....nascar takes a 20-30k hit and you see some large gaps.....Insycar takes it and you what we had in kansas...5k in the stands
http://i41.tinypic.com/169jcav.jpg
But of course, more ovals are needed right Scott? Don't tell me that they just need more American drivers too....because the same track had a race the next day with a similar crowd with a series that is almost all American drivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahFan
The IRL isn't failing because of the ovals, the street courses, or the lack of American drivers. It is failing because people don't consider it big league or relevent any more....and that is a pereception...and it is VERY hard to pin down why....
No..that picture just puts paid to the legacy of Tony George....he figured his IRL would succeed with ovals and American drivers....and 15 years later when he left, there are few Americans in the sport, and he was looking at more road/street races all the time....
Not sure how we fix things..but there is the evidence of where we are, and it wont be easy getting those stands filled any time soon. The other sad reality? The racing will likely be better this year than the previous 3 or 4 and the depth of quality in the field has grown. The guys in the cars and the competition on track is on its way back....THAT part of the merge worked....
Now we just have to argue marketing, TV ratings and promotion forever until things get better or they die...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
1. Yes Marky, more ovals are needed. The series has to be oval dominated and American driver dominated AGAIN (like it was for about 50 years), if it ever wants to be relevent again. Argue it all you want, but the current formula of foreign ride-buyers with NO fanbase and more and more Euro-centric racing, only leads to fewer and fewer folks giving a damn and more and more potential fans staying away. F1 isn't popular (and never will be) here for a reason.
And you do realize that NASCAR Trucks are their AA level of racing. If you want to compare Indy Cars with AA baseball, go right ahead. I don't think that makes a good point for you though.
NASCAR's top 2 series, are almost all American and race on almost all ovals. And they have millions of more fans then Indy Cars. Wasn't that way in the 70's and 80's, when Indy Cars had almost all American drivers and raced primarily on ovals.
2. No, its more a legacy of the entire LEADERSHIP of AOW during the past 25 years. With the #1 culprit in the whole mess being the CAR OWNERS, who replaced the Mears's, Sullivan's, Andretti's, Rahal's, Vasser's, Sneva's, Rutherford's and Unser's of the sport with a bunch of unsellable, unmarketable drivers who helped drive the sport right into the gutter and where it may never get out of.
Blame TG all you want. Its what some of the "one trick pony" posters do best here. He certainly deserves blame for being a part of this complete mess. But also blame Chip Ganassi and Roger Penske and Carl Haas and Gerry Forsythe and Pat Patrick and Derrick Walker and all of those who aspired to make CART and Indy Car Racing into a F1 feeder series and aspired to take on F1, instead of realizing NASCAR was taking off right in front of them and taking their lunch money. Blame them for not building a series that better linked with the majority of American Open Wheel Racing and its crown jewel race. TG had nothing to do with that ball being dropped.
Let's not compare a third rate stockcar series with the premier open wheel series :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
Because it's exactly the same for years now. No more than 5 years ago Indycar used to draw a full house at Kansas and most other ovals. The only thing different between than and now is that there are about 10 more cars. It's still Dallara/Honda/Firestone, it's still Penske/Ganassi/Andretti, it's still Danica, Helio, Franchitti, Kanaan, Marco, Wheldon and so on. Why would someone watch again the next race or the next year? 2011 will not be different from 2010 or 2009.Quote:
The IRL isn't failing because of the ovals, the street courses, or the lack of American drivers. It is failing because people don't consider it big league or relevent any more....and that is a pereception...and it is VERY hard to pin down why....
The old Champcar races aren't doing much better by the way, just take a look at the situation in Toronto.
The Toronto situation is caused by arrogant promoters who are alienating the fans with all sorts of rules that were not there in the old days. They have also managed to turn off the local sports car clubs who provided the course workers and brought out more fans, their families and friends.
They are not advertising the race yet and in Toronto there are all sorts of other events almost every weekend fighting for the dollar.
There is a mass exodus from the GTA every summer weekend to cottage country and more and more events up here fighting for the almighty buck. They have to provide a reason to stay and watch a race and they are doing exactly the opposite.
Molson's knew how to promote and attract people and made it a spectator and worker friendy event.
Opening expensive granstand seats to everyone free at the last minute sure didn't impress those who paid big bucks for them. Do you think they will buy those tickets again or even attend?
Fan interest in racing is not dying in Toronto, just in Indy Car. The blame is on the promoters.
The ALMS race at Mosport is drawing big crowds, not huge but big and more each year. Mosport is fan friendly now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePI2
Yes, the boom is over.
But they still are one of the highest (if not THE highest) rated TV sports entity most weekends during the spring and summer. You can add up the entire non-Indy season of Indy Car ratings and they would be the sum of 2 Cup races.
I think NASCAR is going to survive for the next few years.
They need to make some changes. But in the end, they will be fine. They have the best American talent coming through the pipeline to replace some of their aging stars and more will be on the way in the near future. They understand their consumer and understand what the American public wants and will follow. And good for them.
And they aren't the ones "trying so hard" to lure Miss S. Pony. Its the other way around. Her, her daddy and Go Daddy Parsons are the ones who are desperate to get into NASCAR. They don't need her to be popular. She needs them though, to keep her career and brand going. The light is about flickered out in AOW for her.