Ford Fiesta RS WRC

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Originally Posted by FVS

That`s why I asked if anyone knows the rules I thought it would be based on S2000( 11,5mm maximum lift for valve max rpm 8500 max compression ratios etc) that combined with 2bars and a 33mm restrictor is just idiotic in my opinion.

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It's not possible to combine rules for naturally aspirated engine and rules for turbo engine. Don't worry about that, they are not that dumb. When talking about base in S2000 rules it doesn't mean anything about engine but about the rest of the car. Rules for engine itself are completelly new. Malcolm Wilson and Olivier Quessnel both confirmed some time a go that they know what is inside the regulations.

About the weight... new WRC will have limit 1200 kg most likely. Impreza N16 weights some 1360 kg, Evo X over 1400 kg. They are also much bigger and therefore much less nimble in twisty roads. Brakes and shock absorbers are sooner overheated in heavy car. You have to use harder tyres etc. I wouldn't underestimate also the suspension design. Much bigger suspension travel is huge advantage (also between older and newer S2000 cars or older and newer WRC cars).

You're right that new cars will be slower than current WRC but I don't see much wrong with that. The gap will be smaller on very fast roads and bigger on twisty ones like with curent S2000 but more.

I can't imagine how this would go if they fitted in a really big turbo....That would be just pure speed.

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Originally Posted by Francis44

I can't imagine how this would go if they fitted in a really big turbo....That would be just pure speed.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_Wo...ionship_season

restrictors are very necessary... just have to find a good balance between impressive performance and safety. Plus, part of being a good driver is managing to make do with a little less power than you'd like.

I'd like to point out another thing which is racing fuel. I don't see much sense in using expensive high performance fuel and in the same time restrictors for making output lower. Why not to use bigger restrictor and standard fuel which is 5x cheaper?

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Originally Posted by AndyRAC

Simple, either ban 4WD - or make the 4WD PWRC cars slower. In fact, just get rid of the PWRC - it's a worthless Championship!
The majority of road cars are 2WD - the majority of motorsport is RWD, so why stick with 4WD? It's proved it's point.

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Andy, Im with you on this point. Perhaps you are with me, in a manner of speaking. I posted this about 5 years ago to deaf ears, but I still think it is a viable solution to the problem that the WRC is facing:

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14th May 07, 20:28
Not to get off topic, but I have been saying for some years now that 4wd has made its point. It has also effectively made the visual aspect for spectators on stage and televison alike antiseptic particularly on tarmac events. Im sure that we can all agree that its faster in most respect as a rallycar performs.

Why not go back to RWD? The need for horsepower would be no more than 350-400 on gravel events, and tarmac would have the crowd pleasing drifts back in full effect. Most rally drivers agree that RWD cars are more fun for all involved anyway. So a limit on engines would be moot point. Perhaps the old marques like BMW, Porsche, and even Mercedes might return to top level rallying. We might even see the occasional Ferrari on tarmac events again. Not to mention lifting the mandate on manufacturers commiting to a full season.


I dunno, maybe I have been watching to many old rally 70s and 80s rally videos.

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Can I get a witness? :)

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Originally Posted by 306 Cosworth

What's wrong with paddle shift?

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In general, it is very expensive.

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Originally Posted by Bobcat

In general, it is very expensive.

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Depends on what type they should use.. If they all can use the same its going to be cheap..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUbi1epN0-c
Can be used with paddles or stick..

http://www.mastershift.com/
2500,-€ for this one.. ;)
I'm sure you can get some better....

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Originally Posted by AndyRAC

Simple, either ban 4WD - or make the 4WD PWRC cars slower. In fact, just get rid of the PWRC - it's a worthless Championship!
The majority of road cars are 2WD - the majority of motorsport is RWD, so why stick with 4WD? It's proved it's point.

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That wouldn’t be so cheap either. Converting a FWD car to a RWD car the same job has to be done to the bodyshell as know done with the S2000 cars. Further it also need a new gearbox, rear diff etc.
It would be like a S2000 without the front drive shafts.

To still continue with some issues about the new WRC cars.

The costs:

IMO if a S2000 today costs about 250000 – 300000 euros, taking out the NA2000 engine and putting in a 1.6T engine would not add the cost so much.

The S2000 cars has a sequential gearbox anyway (with no active centre differential) so adding a paddle shift to the gearbox won’t add so much cost (as JFL earlier mentioned).


Restrictor size and boost level:

IMO the restrictor size and boost level should be choose so that the best power would be somewhere between 7000 – 8000 rpm. Then we could have cars with the same sound as the B-group cars had or the A-group cars had somewhere between 1990-1995.

Remembering that the torque come from how much fuel/air mixture can get in to a cylinder per every intake stroke, higher boost level gives more torque (and of course more power) at lower rpm’s but the restrictor will at some point limit the airflow and with a high boost, the limit is reached at lower rpm.

Comparing a 1.6 engine to a 2.0 engine with the same boost level, a 2.0 engine can “inhale” about 25% (2.0/1.6 = 1,25) more air/fuel mixture per every intake stroke and therefore have about 25% higher torque compared to a 1.6 engine at the same rpm.

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Originally Posted by OldF

IMO the restrictor size and boost level should be choose so that the best power would be somewhere between 7000 – 8000 rpm. Then we could have cars with the same sound as the B-group cars had or the A-group cars had somewhere between 1990-1995.

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That would be excellent if it came true as one of the biggest problems IMO with the current WRCars is that they change gear at such low revs it sounds like they are driving to Tesco, and of course the drivers don't have to keep the car 'on the boil' either.

But back to the cost issue; if it is not the engine and not the paddle shift on the current cars making them so expensive, then what is it? A current WRCar costs somewhere between 2 and 3 times an S2000 I think?