Questionable Non-Penalties?

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Originally Posted by yodasarmpit

If you actually take the time to read this thread you will see everyone agrees, that if Hamilton failed to yield to a set of blue flags he should have been penalised.

No one disputes that, however simply don't know if he was shown blue flags.

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From the information from the drivers briefing, it appers he wasn't shown any Blue flags.

From the data I posted, he wasn't held up for 2 laps but may have been for a few corners just before he pitted but as it appears no blue flag was shown, he did nothing wrong.

However, with the current Stewarding situation, I wouldn't be surprised.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

It's OK Dave, I've just had a butchers and it's horsecrap :D

The only time during the race was laps 19 to 21.

On lap 19, Trulli was still a few seconds behind.

Lap 20, he closed but was still not sufficiently close by any stretch of the imagination. Lap time 120.3

Lap 21 he closes further but not sufficiently to be impeded. 120:1

Lap 22, he finally closes up on Lewis on the 2nd half of the Lap but I can't tell if he overtakes and pits or sits behind and pits.

I also can't tell about any blue flags.

What is obvious is he was only in a potential situation to overtake for a few corners.

Thanks to vision F1

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Please re-watch lap 2 for the that race to see why watching the dots is useless for this kind of argument... Hamilton was spun out and the whole field passed him before he could get moving, but on vision it takes almost the whole lap before the last car in the "main" group gets past Hamilton's dot, so in other words, IF Hamilton was holding up Trulli, you won't see it watching Vision...

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Originally Posted by PSfan

Please re-watch lap 2 for the that race to see why watching the dots is useless for this kind of argument... Hamilton was spun out and the whole field passed him before he could get moving, but on vision it takes almost the whole lap before the last car in the "main" group gets past Hamilton's dot, so in other words, IF Hamilton was holding up Trulli, you won't see it watching Vision...

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Sorry PS but you can see immediatly when he is hit by Massa and drops back.

I also suggest you check the laptimes for the Toyota. '20.3's, '20.1's and then pit on the next lap.

Or are we saying that Lewis held him up for 3 laps now now?

The onboard telementary is not really something you can argue with.

how about no penalty for team orders today for ferrari?

i know most teams would have done it (though BMW didn't), but it's still illegal.

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Originally Posted by Mickey T

how about no penalty for team orders today for ferrari?

i know most teams would have done it (though BMW didn't), but it's still illegal.

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Although it was obvious to everyone, it can't really be proved.

It's a ludicrous piece of legislation anyway.

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Originally Posted by Mickey T

how about no penalty for team orders today for ferrari?

i know most teams would have done it (though BMW didn't), but it's still illegal.

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Well, it wouldn't have made much sense for BMW today, as Kubica would have been out of contention for the WDC regardless of whether he finished fifth or sixth as long as Hamilton was ahead of him.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Sorry PS but you can see immediatly when he is hit by Massa and drops back.

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So I guess the incident between Massa and Hamilton happened at the first the start finish line, by watching Visionf1 Hamilton is passed by PK at the first corner, and by the time he gets to the S corners that the incident actually occurs, only Rosberg is left to pass Lewis...

[quote=Knock-on] I also suggest you check the laptimes for the Toyota. '20.3's, '20.1's and then pit on the next lap.

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Lap 17 Trulli did a 1:19.6
Lap 18 He did a 1:19.5
Lap 19 He did 1 1:20.3
Lap 20 He did a 1:20.1
Lap 21 He pitted... But was still held up for most of that lap as well...

So guess who was in front of him on laps 19 -> 21...

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Originally Posted by "Knock-on":6llaey10

Or are we saying that Lewis held him up for 3 laps now now?

The onboard telementary is not really something you can argue with.

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[/quote:6llaey10]

And neither are the lap times... but hear you are... arguing that Hamilton did not lose trulli some .6s a lap over those three laps where the stats clearly prove he did...

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Originally Posted by PSfan

So I guess the incident between Massa and Hamilton happened at the first the start finish line, by watching Visionf1 Hamilton is passed by PK at the first corner, and by the time he gets to the S corners that the incident actually occurs, only Rosberg is left to pass Lewis...

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

I also suggest you check the laptimes for the Toyota. '20.3's, '20.1's and then pit on the next lap.

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Lap 17 Trulli did a 1:19.6
Lap 18 He did a 1:19.5
Lap 19 He did 1 1:20.3
Lap 20 He did a 1:20.1
Lap 21 He pitted... But was still held up for most of that lap as well...

So guess who was in front of him on laps 19 -> 21...




And neither are the lap times... but hear you are... arguing that Hamilton did not lose trulli some .6s a lap over those three laps where the stats clearly prove he did...

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i don't think we are claiming that Trulli wasn't behind Hamilton, nor that Trulli was likely slower as a result, only that there was no reason for Hamilton to move over for the sake of it when no blue flags were shown

As Robinho says, absolutely no one here is disputing these facts, the only issue under contention is "was he shown a series of blue flags?"

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Originally Posted by Robinho

i don't think we are claiming that Trulli wasn't behind Hamilton, nor that Trulli was likely slower as a result, only that there was no reason for Hamilton to move over for the sake of it when no blue flags were shown

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Please re-read knock-on's posts regarding this subject:

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

It's OK Dave, I've just had a butchers and it's horsecrap :D

The only time during the race was laps 19 to 21.

On lap 19, Trulli was still a few seconds behind.

Lap 20, he closed but was still not sufficiently close by any stretch of the imagination. Lap time 120.3

Lap 21 he closes further but not sufficiently to be impeded. 120:1

Lap 22, he finally closes up on Lewis on the 2nd half of the Lap but I can't tell if he overtakes and pits or sits behind and pits.

I also can't tell about any blue flags.

What is obvious is he was only in a potential situation to overtake for a few corners.

Thanks to vision F1

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and

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

From the data I posted, he wasn't held up for 2 laps but may have been for a few corners just before he pitted but as it appears no blue flag was shown, he did nothing wrong.

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From re-watching the race, or at least that segmet of it, I can tell you that Massa did indeed serve his drive through... however regarding the blue flags, I believe Hamilton was eventually shown some... why? because I did error in a previous posting in this thread regarding when Hamilton did let Trulli by, which was just prior to the first corner so Hamilton was indeed only in the way for some 2 complete laps, but on those two laps Hamilton had stretched out a gap from Trulli on the start/finish straight, suggesting that when he did let Trulli by, it was because he was told to, or it finaly sunk in that he was holding up the race leader...