It's time to screw Russia over

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Originally Posted by Daniel

It's simple. Russia's oil and gas is behind their resurgence. 15 years ago Russia was nothing. They couldn't have fought off an under 15's football team let alone a proper army. But thanks to the thirst in Europe for gas and oil they're now filthy rich and because their oil and gas is in such demand they can step on any toes they want and get away with it. Russia can turn off the gas and freeze you to death if they want. If Europe wants things to stay the way they are now we need to stop using oil and gas like we have an unlimited and consequence free supply of the stuff. I like my women with brown hair and my Russians queuing in the streets for bread and unable to fly their planes because they're frigging poor.

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But, as has been said many times, the Russian armed forces are still in an awful state and lacking proper funding. Their capabilities may be enough to hit Georgia hard, but not a lot more than that. The money doesn't seem to be getting through to the military.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

But, as has been said many times, the Russian armed forces are still in an awful state and lacking proper funding. Their capabilities may be enough to hit Georgia hard, but not a lot more than that. The money doesn't seem to be getting through to the military.

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yes, maybe the us should check how many lap dogs there is still left and start to prepaire a war.

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Originally Posted by Tomi

yes, maybe the us should check how many lap dogs there is still left and start to prepaire a war.

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I don't think that is really the answer. To be honest, I don't think anything much is.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

So no Soviet/Russian art of any form should be liked or praised, then, simply because of the actions of the country's leaders over time?

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I think you are completely misunderstanding what I posted.
Just because they had and have people who produced some of the most exceptional cultural bits, it doesn't mean that there are no people with low level or no culture at all, people who in this case are supporting a regime that is harmful for their citizens and for the rest of the world.

That's all, I never said that Russians or any other nation, shouldn't be praised for their cultural achievements. So please do not twist my words.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I don't think that is really the answer. To be honest, I don't think anything much is.

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Same here, actually there is nothing much but diplomacy that can be done, I understand that the ultra nationalist leader of Georgia had lost much of his popularity already before this incidence, after when Georgia gets a more moderate leader, I belive that also european countries will accept Georgias nato membership, if they still want it, and things will be back to normal.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I don't think that is really the answer. To be honest, I don't think anything much is.

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To be honest, I think you are thinking the same way most West European politicians think, you, and implicitly them, do not know what should be done. Because of the lack of knowledge and because of the fear.

I do believe that there are few real politicians in western Europe at this moment, few people of the caliber of let's say Sir Winston Churchill.

So all they do is talk without converging towards an answer. Meanwhile the Russian get more powerful by the day. In the end we will be again saved by the USA.

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Originally Posted by Tomi

Same here, actually there is nothing much but diplomacy that can be done, I understand that the ultra nationalist leader of Georgia had lost much of his popularity already before this incidence, after when Georgia gets a more moderate leader, I belive that also european countries will accept Georgias nato membership, if they still want it, and things will be back to normal.

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Ultra nationalist leader? This is the most pro-European and NATO leader they ever had, and you call him an ultra-nationalist?!

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Originally Posted by ioan

Ultra nationalist leader? This is the most pro-European and NATO leader they ever had, and you call him an ultra-nationalist?!

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So you believe that his motive is the hope that Georgia would help Europe and NATO, and not the hope that Europe and NATO would help Georgia? I'm quite sure his motives are mostly selfish. He wants more firepower against Russia.

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Originally Posted by ioan

To be honest, I think you are thinking the same way most West European politicians think, you, and implicitly them, do not know what should be done. Because of the lack of knowledge and because of the fear.

I do believe that there are few real politicians in western Europe at this moment, few people of the caliber of let's say Sir Winston Churchill.

So all they do is talk without converging towards an answer. Meanwhile the Russian get more powerful by the day. In the end we will be again saved by the USA.

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What is your answer, then?

And don't forget that Churchill got voted out as soon as the war was over, and for good reasons, so he was no panacea of political excellence. Moving on, had those in the Cold War who advocated, for example, a tough response to the Berlin crisis of 1961 held sway, the leaders of the time feared nuclear war and with good reason. Thankfully, wiser counsels prevailed and they will surely do so now, for armed conflict with Russia is not the answer.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Never, you're quite right, but none of those countries are as economically significant as Russia, so I think they would have more effect applied to Russian firms.

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And then manage to decrease petrol and gas prices, by forcing the Russians to sell at a lower price? Interesting idea, if that's what you were meaning.