Was Lewis passing Heikki legal?

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Originally Posted by mstillhere

...we all know that that was team order. Heikki was told to move over and let Lewis get by and he did.

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1) We don't know it was a team order. We don't know Heikki was told to move over. Assumptions are being made from tv pictures whereas the FIA have access to all the team radio communications.

2) The 2008 FIA Sporting Regs Article 39.1 says: "Team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited." Given that Heikki's fastest lap was almost 0.5s slower than Hamilton, and that after the pass he made no progress up the leader board, unlike Hamilton, I can't see how the race result was interferred with.

So no team orders and no interference IMHO.

Incidentally, one of the problems is how deliberately vague the rule is. Every action by every team and every driver at every race "interferes with the race result" in some way or another :p

Don't think it is good for the sport team orders, as Schumi and Barrichello proved in Austria, however Hieki needs to get his act together. If Lewis is lapping that much faster than him in the race then something is wrong with Hieki. Hieki does well in practise and qualy, but falls asleep in the race, a bit like Trulli used to fall off.

Didn't think the overtake was that bad, no worse than the one at Silverstone two weeks ago, Where Hieki clearly breaked early for the turn again.

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Originally Posted by mstillhere

I think everyone noticed how Heikki moved over and let Lewis get by fairly easily. I also noticed how NOBODY was horrified and did not screem bloody murder about this episod. I mean, we all know that that was team order. Heikki was told to move over and let Lewis get by and he did. The media has not said anything about it. And yes there was an embarassing silence when the commentators saw that taking place and then conveniently said nothing. Are you McLaren fans really at peace with yourselves and with your hypocritical interest in F1?

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Yes - this time it was ok. I think Heikki did it because he hadn't any chance to keep Lewis behind him anyway.

BUT - why he was that much slower is difficult to understand? I don't believe he should be over one second behind Lewis in normal case.

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Originally Posted by jas123f1

Yes - this time it was ok. I think Heikki did it because he hadn't any chance to keep Lewis behind him anyway.

BUT - why he was that much slower is difficult to understand? I don't believe he should be over one second behind Lewis in normal case.

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Cue the accusations of Hekki being handicapped so Lewis looks good :laugh:

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

I think you are confusing dates (I am thinking Austria 02) and the situation where Rubens was ordered to let SchM past to win when he did so at the last corner, and when SchM then gave the trophy to Rubens.

The two situations are totally different.

This time Kovi did not ultimately lose a single position at all.

I don't want to keep dredging up old rants which, as I have explained in ioan's thread, serves no useful purpose than to create a feel bad atmosphere in this forum.

I couldn't care less if the cars were silver or Red. Had Kimi, in a slower car, been asked to pull over in similar circumstances for Massa at Silverstone, I could live with it also. But if Kimi had been told to pull over in the last lap to let Massa past to win, then we would have a totally different situation and I am willing to bet the forum would light up with abuse from 98% of the members.

I hope this clarifies things for you. I can't make it clearer than that if yrstillhere.

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Right on the money.

The team order rule was brought in to avoid situations like Austria 2002 where it'd make F1 look, I suppose, farcical. It's unwritten law that this rule is more of a recommendation, rather than a law set in concrete.

Honestly I have nothing against team orders.
It's just the double measures used around here by the fans of team "integrity" that make me puke.

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Originally Posted by Nikki Katz

The problem with team orders was more when Ferrari were the only team that had a chance of winning a race, and they still decided that Barrichello's wins should be gifted to Schumacher, apart from that race where they tried to organise a dead heat, which backfired a bit.

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There was only one win taken away from Rubens, and he got at least one gifted to him by MS later on. So let's not exaggerate.

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Originally Posted by Tomi

Kovalainen was quite pissed about the teamorder right after the race, he said something like, "I have nothing to comment, because they did not let me race"

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He must be feeling bad having to let Lewis by in 2 consecutive races. But after all he is Ron's reconstructed 2nd hand driver, without McLaren in his blood!

I loved the images with Ron "Integrity" pushing the radio buttons just moments before it all happened!
It was priceless! :D

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Originally Posted by cos

The sporting regulation in question states "Team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited", which is, let's face it, vague as anything. Lewis was much faster than anyone else on track at that time and he was clearly going to get by Heikki within a couple of laps anyway. Did McLaren suggest to Heikki that it would be a good idea to makeit somewhat easier for Hamilton to pass? Most likely. Did it affect the race result? I highly doubt it.

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What if Hamilton couldn't manage to pass Heiki on a fair basis? Isn't it that the results of the race were changed by team orders?

You see, I believe they were right to ask Heiki to move over in order to achieve the best possible result for the team.
What bothers me is how some people go to extreme lengths trying to prove it wasn't illegal given that there are rules that state otherwise!

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Originally Posted by schmenke

Well this thread was inevitable... :rolleyes:

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Are you disgusted?
Well so were we, Ferrari fans, over the endless, relentless and never proved calls for cheating and so on from fans of McLaren and Williams back in the day.

Live by the sword, die by the sword!

PS: At least we got proof for the accusations we bring up! :D