...and suspicion that there's something wrong with the project.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
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...and suspicion that there's something wrong with the project.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
They (and we all) should blame Japanese Toyota people, they are the reason of Tommi´s silencenes.
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. The Toyota WEC programme has been a lot more open with regards to PR, etcQuote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
I think this is about Tommi not wanting to give anything away.....
I don't know, pantealex seems pretty much informed about the situation. Anyway, it's not important who's fault for the lack of infos, wether it is Tommi or japanese guys, they're not promising well...Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Remember that this is still a team in its beginning. They are hard at work developing cars, building cars, testing cars, building a site, hiring people, etc etc. It is a huge task to have all this ready for 2017, and this will off course lead to long nights, stress etc. That this should go completely problem free would not be expected. And in this extremely pressing times, talking to journalists may not be on top of the teams "to do-list"Quote:
Originally Posted by AL14
So Keep Calm And Carry on. We wont start to see the true potential of the Tommi Mäkinen/Toyota effort before 2018. And a lot will happen until then.
Ole, I'm not judging anyone. I wait the stage times for that. And there is no doubt they are working hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
But like always there are facts and clues, that don't make me bet one cent on this... I have seen newcomers in a better situation. Hyundai had a proper lineup when they entered. VW had Ogier/Latvala already... They don't... I can assure I am "calm", contrary to them. :)
I know you are not judging :)Quote:
Originally Posted by AL14
But if you look at Hyundai, they´ve been in the WRC full time since 2014, and its only this year that they are really starting to make their mark.
Volkswagen had a more delayed start, as did Citroën when it started the WRC, and both those teams had more than a year more time than Toyota before the first competition. And both started with the best driver line ups we have seen in WRC.
The TMG effort would have had a benefit of the time, but I am sure its a very good reason for Toyoda to axe that effort. And I am also sure that TMGs success in Le Mans this year has a lot to do with loosing the WRC effort, and having to prove something.
Tommi/Toyota has one big challenge, and that is that there are no top drivers wanting to go to Toyota in their first year, before they see how fast the car is. But this is not necessarily a bad thing, because it takes away some of the pressure in their first year of competition, and leads to a "softer" start.
If the car isnt that fast, one can "blame" it on the driver. If the car is really fast, one can "blame" it on the car. A win-win for Toyota.
Zotos is gone, is it good or bad? Difficult to say, but maybe there wasn't room for two roosters in the hen house? And surely there are several sides to that story.
I am guessing that Tommi is currently working about 24/7 to make his mark also as a team boss in the WRC, and I am also guessing that when the potential of the Toyota WRC car is beginning to come to fruition in the later half of the 2017-season, the drivers situation will be solved.
So to judge this effort one way or the other - well, I think that is way too soon. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
Ouch. Please don't call it a succes, it still hurts.
When do you think it will flop ? before the season starts ? mid season or after the end of 17 ?
When will it flop... For you, it will flop before it starts? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
chances areQuote:
Originally Posted by Toyoda
Before 12.34%
Mid season 32.67%
After 54.98%
Never because you suck NOT you loser 0.1%
Is it just me or does NOT seem a little insecure about his 'floppy'?
I must say that 0.1% is a bit high, but i am having a good day so far and i feel generous.Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelBen
Reports say that weakest parts in their endurance testing (car #1)
Dampers (shock absorber), worst week 5 pieces totally gone.
They use Ohlins?Quote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
BOS I think, not 100% sureQuote:
Originally Posted by br21
Poor design or bad parts?Quote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
Could be whatever. I think even if you use Öhlins, you could make some parts yourself. And the dampers/suspension is mounted on parts belonging to car, eg. homemade WRC parts for Yaris.Quote:
Originally Posted by DonJippo
So... not good anyway.
They use BOS, correct. (unless they have changed since last I heard). Weird decision but I'm sure they had their reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
Dunno if they are under contract or if they can change if they are unhappy. Maybe also external factors like Toyota has an agreement with them.
Suspension on Yaris is designed by Zotos who left ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Maybe the reason is that he used BOS dampers for the group N Subarus.Quote:
Originally Posted by itix
That's a really stupid reason if you are spearheading the WRC campaign of one the world's largest manufacturer.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldF
Citroën also used BOS derived dampers on the DS3 and C4 I think. Maybe Toyota thought that was a good enough portfolio?Quote:
Originally Posted by itix
Didn't Citroën use dampers from XTC?
Those are on R5, aren't they? I have always thought they used their own dampers based on BOS design, at least with C4.
Stupid with a tight schedule to work with a familiar company & people?Quote:
Originally Posted by itix
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I interpret that Citroen has three different kind of damper solutions. The R3 with BOS dampers, R5 with dampers developed by Citroen and the WRC with dampers designed and built by Citroen.
R3:
http://www.citroenracing.com/en/clie...itroen-ds3-r3/
R5:
http://www.citroenracing.com/en/clie...tition/ds3-r5/
“Very similar to a WRC, in terms of both handling and performance, the DS 3 R5 is equipped with dampers specifically developed by Citroën Racing.”
WRC:
http://www.citroenracing.com/en/citroen-ds3-wrc/
“The three-way adjustable shock absorbers (low- and high-speed compression and rebound) have been designed and built by Citroën Racing.”
Toyota Gazoo driver Hiroki Arai was making his own pace notes for first time during Rally Estonia
Source this article about his codriver Glenn Macneall http://www.rallyaustralia.com.au/mac...-toyota-gazoo/
Well I assume that they want to be the best at some point and I am guesstimating now but different dampers must work differently so if you chose one manufacturer you can't just swap in the future and expect the car to react the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldF
If they found out that BOS was a limitation in the future they can't just put Reigers instead and expect them to work.
That's why I thought that selecting a company because you know them is bit silly.
Tommi isn't stupid so I hope that's not what he has done.
Sometimes it is about which company had the capacity/ resources to supply the rally team.
http://www.bos-engineering.com/english/produits.html
I wonder if Ohlins would not have been a preferable choice.
As said BOS has been working with Citroën for many years and they kept winning. Sachs has been used by noone before VW brouht them in and they have been winning right from the start. For sure some brands have very good reputation but it doesn't mean the others can't create better product. Let them show what they can do.
I have a feeling Citroën might be working with Ohlins, as in the WTCC car and on the R5 they have their dampers (might be wrong about the WTCC though, but I remember it to be Ohlins).Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeakiwi
Does anyone still use Bilstein?
Lots of people do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeakiwi
I'm in the middle of making 04 Subaru, O5 Subaru, 97 Subaru, 94 Golf, 95 BMW and 96 BMW struts all inverted 50mm..And here in Fortress America™ I've supplied a couple of hundred cars with full suspension...I like Bilstein for one good reason: they have kept the same notational system for the valving since time began---or at least the mid 1970s when I first began disassembling and modding them... so I can look and see if 260/90 is a bit soft both ways I can go to 300/100 and I know what I'm getting..
At higher levels and for the richer wannabes they "need" double compression damping, single rebound, hydraulish puffer, and the need to spend 2 x as much..
What I'm curious is does anybody down there in NZ or "the Western Island" still use DMS?
Quote:
Originally Posted by itix
hördu, everybody knows what's inside the others...Everybody would be crazy NOT to know..
There are only so many ways to skin a cat.
Way back when Kenta Öhlin there at pappas Öhlins Mekaniska Verkstand in Sollentuna when he was designing his stuff and VM250 rider Tea-Leaf Hansen from Upplands-Väsby was being the "test victim" there were on one big table all disassembled and laid out dampers from Torleifs works Kawasaki (KYB hand built), KYB series tillverkning, works KYB from Yamaha, Showa, production bike Bilstein, production car Bilstein, Koni, White Power from Holland (modded car Bilsteins) and maybe some others..
All laid out and everything measured, and examined and tested for strength---shock shaf into vise and a big long ring-nyckel ove one end and then BEND! Bilstein shaft was 10mm...production Öhlins were 14mm---which is several times stronger..
So no real secrets..
Much more important is the openness of the mind of whoever is in charge...Some "vet allt" and are compelled to have their way, some listen...and know that more is done better thru cooperation...
Tommi Has a relationahip with somebody , that's important because he has a very hard head and even engineers have egos--hell even machinists/fabricator guys (like me) have egos and thick heads..So relationship first, then they can make anything.
(My bossback then, Peter Strandh, also (like ever single person at Öhlins) was from Upplands-Väsby (and everybody was in UVMK) had the subcontract to make the automated welder to weld the bottom eyelet forging onto the shock tubes....so we were there many evenings when the prototype stage was going over to production. I still make suspension 40 years later..)
Grøndal's R5 had ÖhlinsQuote:
Originally Posted by TWRC
Yes. All Citroen R5´s got Öhlins dampers..Quote:
Originally Posted by SubaruNorway
There are some users on Twitter stating that FIA has stated that the Yaris rear wing is illegal because it is not according to regulations 2017. Does anyone know more about this?
Here is the Motorsport News article about that :
http://fr.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=15nlpo1&s=9
Toyota (Tommi) has said after 1st test that wings are not even close to final versions...Quote:
Originally Posted by rogef
So for rounding up, you´re saying the brand doesn´t mean a lot. Only how the whole package is constructed and mounted/adjusted indoors own workshop (like Toyota in this case) by people knowing how to do. Right?Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
Like I tried to say as well.
Your swenglish is gorgeous btw!! :)