Liberal bend? Ever listen to Tavis Smiley? And he is a moderate compared to some of the people on there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Printable View
Liberal bend? Ever listen to Tavis Smiley? And he is a moderate compared to some of the people on there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
No, he said it would be allowed only if Israel were in an armed conflict and the blockade were legal. The only one who thinks Israel is in an armed conflict and that the blockade is legal is Israel, therefore Israel didn't have the law on its side. You don't make laws by yourself in a democratic world, others must agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
That is not what was said or the person would have said Israel had no legal standing to as it does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
He didn't say anything straight. He said Israel is both right and wrong depending on how you look at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
http://www.diis.dk/graphics/Publicat...2006-7.web.pdf
Turkish authorities began their own domestic criminal investigation of IHH as early as December 1997, when sources revealed that leaders of IHH were purchasing automatic weapons fromother regional Islamic militant groups.
IHH’s bureau in Istanbul was thoroughly searched, and its local officers were arrested. Security forces uncovered an array of disturbing items, including firearms, explosives, bomb-making instructions, and a “jihad flag.” After analyzing seized IHH documents, Turkish authorities concluded that “detained members of IHH were going to fight in Afghanistan, Bosnia, and Chechnya.”
Who owns the Mavi Marmara, the ship of the group which was boarded? IHH
Even the AP makes mention of this:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...2VZUAD9G3CKJO0
The largest flotilla by far, it was dominated not by Free Gaza, which sent only one small passenger boat, but by three ships sent by an Islamic aid group from Turkey, the Foundation for Human Rights and Freedom and Humanitarian Relief. The group, known by its Turkish acronym IHH, was banned by Israel in 2008 because of alleged ties to Hamas.
Yes, that this whole event isn't clear cut as the world makes out.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Yet another legitimate bit of news escaping that anti-Israel crowd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
The Israeli's are only guilty of making a hash of the boarding, and they did because of their desire to be "sensititive" to the same sensablities of those who are ripping them anyhow....
I think that tells the tale. I've actually heard about this but haven't found so much information. Full blown terrorists hiding in the midst of an 'aid flotilla' biding their time to try and kill israeli soldiers. Of course the global outrage and automatic kneejerk reaction "I can't believe those savages massacred those aid people" against Israel didn't let anybody get confused by these facts. Our stumbling PR and lamest-ever foreign staff wrecked everything else. On a personal note I must say I am much more disappointed by the way the military went along with such a bad operation then by the way world media showed this. I'm used to the media but expected a lot more from the top brass of the military. Those soldiers were almost killed by that foolish in-the-box thinking. They threw them right into the lion's den without the right preparation. Intelligence just fell sleep on this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
I can't believe all those who attacked the soldiers were sent back to turkey for a hero's welcome instead of facing justice. The price of having to appease everybody, I guess. I hope they get some dog poo delivered to their porches.
I had much hope when Turkey wasn't accepted into the EU because I knew they'd turn their efforts to become a regional superpower, one which could bridge the gaps between Israel and Syria/Lebanon/Palestinians. Instead they went the other way to join Iran and Syria against Israel. Their current PM is a disaster, weakening their secular ideology and strengthening radical Islam.
I guess I won't be returning to Bodrum and Antalya anytime soon, their lose.
The thing is Rani, is the last PM I would expect you guys to have to send military into a mission with one arm tied behind their back would be this one. This is a mess from the word go, and the fact no arms actually were on the ship makes you guys really wear a lot of egg on the face.
I wont even get into the rights of stopping the ship. Rollo has shown the legalitities of this stuff better than I (I gave up being the forum's amateur lawyer when I realized the real one was beating my head to a pulp) .
This was just stupid, and the Turk's have really lost a of moral high ground in that they may be heroes to those who think Israel should be forced at gunpoint to accept Hamas living next door with no defence, but in the end, the Turk's will end up being marginalized on the world scene.
I think it's a real shame. I really enjoyed myself last time I was there. I actually liked the people, mediterenean culture at its best. We had Haim Revivo (an israeli footballer) play for two of the biggest clubs there, and he was pretty much worshipped there then. I remember walking through the markets and the second a shopkeeper would hear hebrew he'd start hollering random stuff in hebrew and shout 'Haim Revivo' in order to lure you to his corner. Nice folk and great food too. I hope they retain their secular ideology after this radical islam wave passes over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
I'd like to preface this with saying that the following is WMG - "Wild Mass Guessing" on my part:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rani
I'm beginning to suspect that this whole debacle is really in effect, a political message designed to justify the "Islamification" of what is otherwise secularist Turkey.
Remember, the current president of Turkey is none other than Abdullah Gul who was elected back in 2007.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6966216.stm
Turkey's military chief warned on Monday that "centres of evil" were trying to undermine the state. Gen Yasar Buyukanit did not name those he said were "trying to corrode the secular nature of the Turkish Republic."
But analysts said the statement was clearly aimed at Mr Gul, a devout Muslim.
Turkey's military and secular establishment suspect he might harbour a secret Islamist agenda.
What better way would there be to justify moves away from secularism, when you can claim victim status in all of this? Plus, it's really easy to demonise Israel when most of the Islamic world already hates them.