2012 Australian Grand Prix Thread - Official

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Originally Posted by wedge

So was Mansell. He sold his house and lived in the back of a Ford transit when he was coming up through the ranks.

Money was tight and he drove poor equipment. This is where his aggressive style came from. He would run as little wing as possible to make up for lack of straightline speed and man handle the difference in the corners. He carried into F1. Never stopped him being regarded as one of the best drivers of his generation which had tyre wars hence soft compounds.

Take the 1986 Australian GP for instance. The haters say Mansell over drove the car when in fact Goodyear brought the wrong tyres.

Which reminds me. 2005 was supposed to be Jenson's year because of the ban on tyre stops and yet nothing truly special happened to make JB stand out.

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As Jens points out.. although he didn't really stand out in the grand scale of things he did in terms of his team mate, who despite not being highly regarded is still the closest meaningful comparison one can make.

Fair point regarding Mansell, he made his driving style which went in the opposite direction (to Jensons) work for him then... but would his agressive style work as well for him now?
I just look at Lewis who is able to push a car to the max and will get a far higher qualifying percentage record over the season yet the slower (over one lap) but smoother Button still seems to be fairing better... if it isn't the tyres, what is it?
I suppose we could all jumping the gun on this, maybe Lewis was just unlucky in Oz and will bounce back and consistantly outpoint him this year.. no one knows but It looks like its going to be a very close and interesting season especially with the Bulls and McLaren so close at this stage. :)

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Originally Posted by aki13

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However I don't think anyone thought he would be one of the top F1 drivers.

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Good post in general. :)

But I can mention that actually around 2006 I thought Button was a top driver, but in the next two years he ruined that reputation. To be honest, at that time I thought the same about Heidfeld too, but unlike Button he never got such career-break.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

:yawn: Excuses, excuses :D

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Originally Posted by jens

But I can mention that actually around 2006 I thought Button was a top driver, but in the next two years he ruined that reputation. To be honest, at that time I thought the same about Heidfeld too, but unlike Button he never got such career-break.

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Indeed he was a good driver, but just how good? That's what divided opinion because he certainly wasn't exceptional.

Barrichello was a better quality driver to Sato. The difference was minimal but the general pattern was that Rubens was better when the car was poor.

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Originally Posted by jens

Good post in general. :)

But I can mention that actually around 2006 I thought Button was a top driver, but in the next two years he ruined that reputation. To be honest, at that time I thought the same about Heidfeld too, but unlike Button he never got such career-break.

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+1

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Speak for yourself. I always believed he was one of the very best out there.

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Based on his performances before Brawn GP, he was nothing special. Nowhere near Kimi, Alonso, Hamilton, Schumacher league.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Thats not to say he hasn't developed into a very good driver capable of matching the drivers you mention though is it?

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Here's there or thereabouts.

I thought last year's Japanese GP was his best win. It was hard to name a winner mid-race, just as Hamilton accomplished similar feats in that year's Chinese & German GPs and 2010 Canada.

JB needs to be consistent at driving at the highest level if he wants to be considered a great, IMHO.

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Originally Posted by wedge

JB needs to be consistent at driving at the highest level if he wants to be considered a great, IMHO.

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So does his teammate...

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Originally Posted by jens

To be honest, at that time I thought the same about Heidfeld too, but unlike Button he never got such career-break.

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I still think Heidfeld was, in his day, one of the best and fastest drivers in F1. His record against his team mates is nearly impeccable. In 2001 he beat Kimi in Sauber. The next year he beat Filipe Massa in the same car. In 2005 he beat Mark Webber in Williams. Then he beat Jacques Villeneuve in 2005 and 2006. And what most people forget is that he beat the highly regarded Robert Kubica 2 out of the 3 seasons they were teammates. Along the way, he also beat a great many number of journeymen.

Once Heifeld lost his permanent seat in F1 though, he lost a certain amount of confidence, and he was never quite the same as a substitute driver. But in the right environment, I still think Heidfeld could have been a multiple GP winner. He just never had the right environment around him, and he never made a team 'his own'.

We think of F1 and motor racing in general as an individual sport, but the reality is that those around a driver, managing them, advising them, etc. have a lot to do with their success or failures. You look at how Button improved after he changes his manager after the whole BAR-Williams contract saga, and how he realised that he had been getting the wrong advice from his manager and that had affected his racing. Who knows, in another universe, with different people around him, Heidfeld's story could have turned out very differently.

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Originally Posted by aryan

I still think Heidfeld was, in his day, one of the best and fastest drivers in F1. His record against his team mates is nearly impeccable. In 2001 he beat Kimi in Sauber. The next year he beat Filipe Massa in the same car.

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Let's not forget that Kimi and Massa were rookies though, when they partnered Heidfeld at Sauber. Nick already had one or two seasons under his belt.

I know many people rated (and rate) him highly, but I have to say I never saw it... He was solid, but never showed any sign of greatness IMO.

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Originally Posted by F1boat

So does his teammate...

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IMO Hamilton is a great driver. More naturally gifted than Button because he is better at consistently extracting the maximum from a car. Has JB ever polished a turd as LH did in 2009?

Consistent results is a different matter.