Bolton Midnight, when was the last time you posted something about motorsport? You should just relax about New Labour, they are not in power anymore...
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Bolton Midnight, when was the last time you posted something about motorsport? You should just relax about New Labour, they are not in power anymore...
You would make a hopeless "Just a Minute" contestant :laugh: Cries of "evasion" would be heard :p :Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
Do you, or do you not, have a figure for the amount of alleged public sector waste to compare with the £850bn bank bailout, or the £1000.4 bn national debt?
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/b...d-horror-story
shows the real debt not what some left wing agenda paper reckons it is.
As does this
http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/
This more believeable than your links
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politi...-201012143348/
Which bit of the bank bailout will be paid back with profits are you struggling with?
Yay, you're learning to put links in. Shame one of them links to a trailer for a documentary, one links to the front page of a vested-interest pressure group, and the third links to what appears to be some attempt at a comic. Never mind, keep at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
But links or no links, you've spectacularly missed the point Arrows was making. He didn't dispute that the national debt is huge, he asked what effect your proposals for sacking 2 million public sector workers would have - even supposing for a moment is was practical.
It'd be like pouring a glass of vodka into a swimming pool and calling it a cocktail.
This is from two weeks ago, about a report from the National Audit Office (go ahead and accuse them of lying, like you did with the Office of National Statistics):Quote:
Which bit of the bank bailout will be paid back with profits are you struggling with?
Or if you prefer another source:Quote:
But the NAO said it was still unclear if the taxpayer would ever be able to recoup its losses on stakes held in RBS and Lloyds Banking Group - currently in the red to the tune of £12.5 billion.
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scot...ack.6660863.jpQuote:
THE UK government may never claw back the taxpayer funds ploughed into Royal Bank of Scotland and Lloyds Banking Group, a report from the National Audit Office (NAO) warns today
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave B
A documentary all about the real mess we are in and why reducing the size of the public sector is an absolute must do if we are ever to get out of it this Labour created mess.
Taxpayers Alliance is far more truthful than Independent or Guardian as it shows how much is being spunked away by the public sector. Study it, you'll learn something.
Daily Mash > Guardian
If you are in business and have heaps of debt you cannot spend your way out of debt as Labour tried to do by creating non-jobs to bribe folk into voting Labour (turkeys don't vote for Christmas). So heaps need to be sacked and those retained need massive pay cuts and their cushy pensions massively reduced. It is the only way to reduce the debts.
Money has already come back from Labour's bail out and the rest will come back with profits, besides not bailing the banks out was just not an option, only a complete cretin would think so.
Again you miss the point: nobody's disputing that there's a large deficit. However, the economy needs stimulating and the coalitions plans depend on the critically flawed notion that the private sector will rush into the vacuum created by the scaling back of the public sector - this is dangerously unworkable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
I'm well aware of the Taxpayers' Alliance, thank you. They're a vested-interest pressure group with some wealthy Conservative supporting benefactors, who hypocritically campaign for fairer taxes while hiding behind dubious charitable status to avoid paying tax themselves.Quote:
Taxpayers Alliance is far more truthful than Independent or Guardian as it shows how much is being spunked away by the public sector. Study it, you'll learn something.
There's simply no comparison, and the fact that you attempt to make one betrays your fundamental misunderstanding of how the economy works. For starters, if a business lays off staff, it doesn't have to pay them benefits or deal with the consequences to the wider economy.Quote:
If you are in business and have heaps of debt you cannot spend your way out of debt as Labour tried to do by creating non-jobs to bribe folk into voting Labour (turkeys don't vote for Christmas). So heaps need to be sacked and those retained need massive pay cuts and their cushy pensions massively reduced. It is the only way to reduce the debts.
Some money has been returned, yes, but what did you make of the NAO report which predicts we may never break even on RBS or Lloyds? Besides, you again dodge the issue. Nobody's saying the banks shouldn't have been helped to some extent, the question remains unanswered: how will decimating the public sector be anything other than a drop in the ocean compared to the overall defecit?Quote:
Money has already come back from Labour's bail out and the rest will come back with profits, besides not bailing the banks out was just not an option, only a complete cretin would think so.
One more thing, a little amuse-bouche for you: you criticise the rise in the number of public sector workers but did you know that since 2008 Lloyds TSB banking group are included in the official figures, and that Northern Rock have been included since the end of 2007? [source]
A Tory government myth. Their hope is that with repetition it will be believed. The mess was the result of a global economic downturn. If Labour had created it only the UK would be suffering and it is blindingly obvious that is not the case. The UK was hit hard largely because 40 per cent of its GDP is reliant on the financial industry, whose mess we are now paying for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
The Taxpayers Alliance is a pressure group calling for low taxes. Matthew Elliott, the CEO lives in France and doesn't pay UK tax (like Monaco resident Sir Philip Green who is advising the goverment). The founders of the TPA are associated with the Conservative Party, and the TPA's campaign manager works for Iain Duncan Smith.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
You can. Companies often increase their advertising, for example, when they're struggling, in order to attract new business and therefore income.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
Surely a Conservative like yourself would want incompetent, failing businesses or organisations to go to the wall, and not expect them to be given government handouts? I agree that the banking system could not be allowed to fail, but the bailout is rather at odds with the Tory ideology of the free market.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
I think it's safe to assume you don't have a figure for the amount of alleged public sector waste for comparison purposes.
I am not missing the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave B
We as a country are massively in debt, a trillion pounds and it is growing all the time. So we have to cut out all the waste. Politically correct non-jobs are waste; so have to go - they should never have been created in the first place but that was just Labour buying votes with our money.
I am in business myself and know full well you cannot buy your way out of debt; you need to cut your waste down and tighten your belt. This includes the ‘state’ even though for some unknown reason the unions think they are above all that, frigging dinosaurs.
Only way to stimulate the economy is to get folk spending, this will happen if we get tax cuts but we can't afford them at present as we are having to deal with Labour's debts. The public sector does not create wealth it just absorbs it.
Paying Diversity Out Reach Managers dole is cheaper than paying them wages, besides if they are such go getters they won't struggle getting proper jobs within the private sector, if they are unemployable then why were they employed in the first place?
Have you ever seen the Monty Python pantomime horse sketch?
That report is guesswork at best so not worthy of being read, I prefer to deal in reality, such as the Taxpayer's Alliance that tells it as it is not as it may be.
Labour allowed the banks to act so recklessly, despite being advised to rein them in time and time again. Then they compounded the problem by wasting so much of our money on the public sector.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
All good people who know what they are on about, unlike the Unions who forced Red Ed on Labour even though Labour didn't want him.
Spending money on advertising is not spending money on works of art or politically correct bollocks. I can just imagine my bank manager's face if I asked her for a loan to buy some worthless piece of art for my businesses waiting area. But I'm in the real world not the public sector.
I was annoyed about Labour's scrappage scheme as it only helped a small portion of the public sector, a reduction in business rates would have helped everyone and not just a few franchised car dealers.
Nobody has an exact figure on public sector waste, as it is so vast nobody knows, the only ones that do have a vested interest in taxpayers not finding out.
Wrong. If you reduce the size of the public sector to zero, then the resulting sectors of the economy need to keep spending at increased levels to maintain the same size of the economy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
Aggregate Income = Consumer Spending + Investment Spending + Government Spending + Exports Receipts - Savings - Taxation - Imports Payments
Y = C+I+G+X-S-T-M
The biggest aggregate stimulants of the economy are spending on Investment in new projects and Government spending (which quite often entails new projects like infrastructure).
Tax Cuts will change the immediate level of consumer spending and savings, but in an economy that's already depressed, tax cuts lead to increased savings as people's sentiment is uncertain and the economy shrinks because with the level of savings increasing, money is removed from the circular flow.
I'm sorry, but that's one of the chief reasons why the Great Depression wasn't really stopped in Britain until there was a massive burst in Government Spending called WW2.
Really? So policemen, doctors, teachers, road builders, politicians, council workers and civil servants don't need to eat, live in houses, pay their utility bills etc? Their incomes simply just diappear into thin air?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
If the police force was privatised tommorrow and replace with a private firm, would their work which is identical to the previous day magically "create wealth" as you put it?