WRC mainclass from 2027

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Originally Posted by WRCStan

^ Agree.

Brand new cars to last for decades and the Rally2 or Rally2 sourced - whatever it is - engine is not the long term sole solution.

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It totally is long term solution, more so when the regs are designed for future flexibility in mind.

Rally2 sourced engine is just fancy phrasing for road-car derived engines, which is imo important.

FIA can anytime allow other displacement than 1.6T, and they hinted they will in future, as well alternative powertrains. They just need to develop some good way of balance of power (they already say they don't want balance of performance ala circuit racing).

At this point it's a platform that allows just Rally2-like cars (not just powertrain, basically everything but chassis and suspension is same spec as Rally2 rn). But the platform allows to do almost anything with the cars.

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Originally Posted by skarderud

Well, should be around 15 teams aiming for top5, in the "holy" rally1 its 5 toyotas in the same place.
Much better in all means.

This weekends rally in sweden is what i think i rally2 based wrc would be like, so if you dont think it would be cool, just watch the rally and jugde after.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

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Ok if an entry list with two just big names, Suninen and Sesks is a massive competition for you then you have really low standards.

And why you guys say every time “go and watch it”
I have been to plenty of rallies and watched also plenty in my life and I don’t get it how this one rally now suddenly should change my view.

And about Vaher, I’m telling ya he is the real deal

I wonder if more manufacturers participate if the WRC had more tarmac than gravel. Personally I like gravel rallies, but, in my part of the world gravel roads are so rare that most people here probably don't know they even exist. I see why the marketing people could think it's not good advertising. Maybe a mostly tarmac WRC would interest the likes of Porsche, BMW, etc.

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Originally Posted by EstWRC

Massive competition? Really?

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What would be massive in your understanding - amount of similar fast cars and drivers as runners in the Boston Marathon?
I have watched ERC live, there are many fast drivers, plus check the startlist for this rally - very high levele competition. Plus, by some interesting reason, there is a new gen of swe drivers that are rising fast.

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Originally Posted by skarderud

Well, should be around 15 teams aiming for top5, in the "holy" rally1 its 5 toyotas in the same place.
Much better in all means.

This weekends rally in sweden is what i think i rally2 based wrc would be like, so if you dont think it would be cool, just watch the rally and jugde after.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

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100%!

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Originally Posted by EstWRC

Ok if an entry list with two just big names, Suninen and Sesks is a massive competition for you then you have really low standards.

And why you guys say every time “go and watch it”
I have been to plenty of rallies and watched also plenty in my life and I don’t get it how this one rally now suddenly should change my view.

And about Vaher, I’m telling ya he is the real deal

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The point is - 2027 will look like this weekend, just with some 10 more fast drivers in addition. I have a feeling that in 2027 getting into top 10 will be challanging. That means - very fast driving on the edge with tech that wont forgive mistakes.

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Originally Posted by AndersX

The point is - 2027 will look like this weekend, just with some 10 more fast drivers in addition. I have a feeling that in 2027 getting into top 10 will be challanging. That means - very fast driving on the edge with tech that wont forgive mistakes.

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That is what we want. Right now if you change a tyre you could still end up on 4th or 5th place.

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Originally Posted by EstWRC

Ok if an entry list with two just big names, Suninen and Sesks is a massive competition for you then you have really low standards.

l

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Your 2 big names weren't in the top 3 in Qualifying (P4 &P5).

And the rest of the top 10 were within tenths of them.

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

Your 2 big names weren't in the top 3 in Qualifying (P4 &P5).

And the rest of the top 10 were within tenths of them.

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Nice try

First of all, they aren’t my big names, they are most known I saw on the entry list, don’t care if they are there or not

Second of all, yeah let’s make conclusions already based on qualifying stage.

Third, this is off topic anyway

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Originally Posted by speederbee

I wonder if more manufacturers participate if the WRC had more tarmac than gravel. Personally I like gravel rallies, but, in my part of the world gravel roads are so rare that most people here probably don't know they even exist. I see why the marketing people could think it's not good advertising. Maybe a mostly tarmac WRC would interest the likes of Porsche, BMW, etc.

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Definetely should be at least one event with mixed surface on calendar. If the car is capable of driving on paved roads and gravel, snow and ice, it's capable racing on both surfaceS withing the weekend. Also if the team is capable transforming car for different surface, it's capable to do it on the same weekend. There is no excuses.

if there were half tarmac events they need to be different, so the championship wouldn't became too boring.

SUVs was meant to be the car for driving on gravel, rough terrain. Funny is that WRC happen on mostly that type of surface. And brands do actually seel only those kind of cars, so they should be following that path and promote their products as they fit perfectly into that.

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Originally Posted by Kenneth

It totally is long term solution, more so when the regs are designed for future flexibility in mind.

Rally2 sourced engine is just fancy phrasing for road-car derived engines, which is imo important.

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I'm open to the spec, in the same way that the body has to be within the set volume.

But disagree that it has to go through group A first, 2,500 examples etc, when it's only the block being used - just a lump of metal - and road designed displacement is often ignored anyway as everything that bolts to it is made for purpose as it all transforms into a racing engine! With 10% by 2035 and manufs divesting their engine building because they don't want to be associated with them, the pool of potential suppliers is too small and the wrong crowd. And if a Horse can supply an engine (like it is supplying that Chevrolet a few pages back), why can't a pony provide engines that are built for purpose? That's the philosophy of all this.

It doesn't make sense. And market forces work so much better than cost caps on a very small group of disinterested suppliers.

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Originally Posted by EstWRC

Nice try

First of all, they aren’t my big names, they are most known I saw on the entry list, don’t care if they are there or not

Second of all, yeah let’s make conclusions already based on qualifying stage.

Third, this is off topic anyway

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Not trying anything just replying and you were discussing it in this thread.

PS. The two 'names' arent even in the top 10 on SS1. The rally is competitive.... like WRC 27 should be.

PPS. Vaher fastest on SS1... you wouldnt like this possibility in WRC ?

You know what, in WRC it would be fluke, luck, better road position, crash incoming every second, etc.

Also it would just show how bad WRC become if Neuville and Ogier would be outside of top 5, all about a luck now /s

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Originally Posted by EstWRC

Massive competition? Really?

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mate, cmoon: suninen, marczyk, sesks, mabelini, creighton, matulka, tempestini, isak, calle, allen (meeeh lol), brynildsen, heikkila, semenuk

if this is not an impressive entry list i'd argue you are missing out on A LOT of fun by not watching something outside wrc =P

If only the Rally2 cars were not that boring for me personally. A shame, but I just can't watch them without going to sleep. They need a reset too in my opinion. The initial iteration of them, the R5 were wonderful cars: https://youtu.be/IbdD6T6hLz0?t=25

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

Not trying anything just replying and you were discussing it in this thread.

PS. The two 'names' arent even in the top 10 on SS1. The rally is competitive.... like WRC 27 should be.

PPS. Vaher fastest on SS1... you wouldnt like this possibility in WRC ?

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point is all about context. erc and wrc are way apart.

this may be a good (or massive) competition for the erc level, but it doesn't mean wrc will be the same. wrc level is way ahead i fear.
take top5 in sweden now: 2 super local expert +3 "wrc" material - but not prime material. suninen didn't really make it at top level, sesks is struggling after a brilliant entry. vaher is the toyota bet for the future, all to be discovered. they're already getting a gap to anyone else after 1 loop, just a couple of the super local are fighting.

to me, it looks very like what we have now. wrc2 with good competition, around 10 drivers "top tier" in rally1 (that will remain ahead), possibly some surprises (sesk, armstrong, possibly vaher in the future). i don't see different cars erasing this drivers difference.

I think the school of thought that we will have more competition next year due to more drivers having "equal" machienery will be quite disappointed. WRC1 drivers are in the WRC1 for a reason. The only thing hat will happen is that the gap between WRC1 and WRC2 is not that big on average

Thing is, even with the very top guys in Rally 1 cars, there is still seem as not enough competition as the Toyota is a different level to the Hyundai & Ford.

Of course there's always been car differences, but the level can still be closer with many makes of Rally2 & WRC27. The top guys will still be the top guys but there's still possibilities for more locals and new stars to challenge them.

The higher the likelihood of a larger field, the lower the likelihood of the top guys being there. And that has nothing to do with the top guys running scared.

Many of guys being in top wasn't supposed being there as their results did prove why were they there.

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Originally Posted by EstWRC

Ok if an entry list with two just big names, Suninen and Sesks is a massive competition for you then you have really low standards.

And why you guys say every time “go and watch it”
I have been to plenty of rallies and watched also plenty in my life and I don’t get it how this one rally now suddenly should change my view.

And about Vaher, I’m telling ya he is the real deal

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Your man Vaher looks good. First time I have seen him drive, very impressive. Not just driving, but mental approach seems very calm.

Well folks, it is what it is. Its R5s from now on - and the "next gen" of cars (WRC27) are also R5s but on tube frames. Cant we just move on?

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Originally Posted by giu canbera

Well folks, it is what it is. Its R5s from now on - and the "next gen" of cars (WRC27) are also R5s but on tube frames. Cant we just move on?

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Yep. Glad we settled everything. See you all at cheeserollingforums.com.

The fact is that WRC27 (no matter the cost cap), won't probably attract new manufacturers. It's the promotion, coverage and the stories that hurt this sport. If that department would work properly, brands would invest millions no matter the cost. It just seems right now that next set of rules works, because 2 tuners are working on this new regulations, and Toyota. And M-Sport/Hyundai don't. It's also a very big stupidity and risk that they are delaying final decision on promoter rights (which I strongly believe that there is no one at all seriously interested), and final implement of rules. I mean when they will decide if it's better to delay everything that rush into doom.

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Originally Posted by giu canbera

Cant we just move on?

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Apparently not.

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Originally Posted by WRCStan

Apparently not.

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I said the same last year. None us us knows anything really and we should just wait and see when it's all finalised.

But 150 Pages later we're still speculating.

Just need a few more milestones and significant announcements for talking points.

Rumour spread by a Peruvian Instagram of a new constructor to announce at Rally Japan - next weekend.
Rumour of a European manufacturer to announce in June.
Rumour of the new promoter to announce at point of WMSC.

as someone said on fb: "its r5 with some locals entering, seeing new teams building new cars over the next years, having mads trying scoring a podium here and there, sesks with budget to do the full season Vs. re-watching two toyotas vs neuville for the 9th time all over again".

this comment one or two months ago settled the score for me haha

And instead of two Toyotas vs Neuville sometimes, it will be Toyota vs Toyota all day, any day ^^

I tell you, we will miss the rare cases where Hyundai was competitive with Toyota next year

nah, its going to be fun, dont worry

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Originally Posted by doubled1978

Your man Vaher looks good. First time I have seen him drive, very impressive. Not just driving, but mental approach seems very calm.

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That aged well!!

Nevertheless, the kid looks a talent.

Toyota reveals harsh reality behind new WRC car project.

Toyota has admitted that developing its new-generation WRC car for 2027 has proven far more challenging than many may have expected.

https://rallyjournal.com/toyota-reve...qwBfMe_wMkDDhA

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

Toyota reveals harsh reality behind new WRC car project.

Toyota has admitted that developing its new-generation WRC car for 2027 has proven far more challenging than many may have expected.

https://rallyjournal.com/toyota-reve...qwBfMe_wMkDDhA

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Where is the description from? Maybe AI generated?

Since the article does not say that at all. It just says that they have lot's of work still todo, for example:

“In principle, we are happy with the progress, but at this stage we are still very far from being fully satisfied. That is completely normal at the moment.”

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I missed that the article itself states the description right at the top, sorry. But them maybe they used AI, since again, the interview just does not say that

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Originally Posted by Ferranis

Where is the description from? Maybe AI generated?

Since the article does not say that at all. It just says that they have lot's of work still todo, for example:

“In principle, we are happy with the progress, but at this stage we are still very far from being fully satisfied. That is completely normal at the moment.”

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I missed that the article itself states the description right at the top, sorry. But them maybe they used AI, since again, the interview just does not say that

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A recent (paywalled) Autosport article uses this headline and intro...

Why WRC 2027 car project is the “most difficult” Toyota has faced.

Developing a World Rally Championship car for the new 2027 technical regulations is the “most difficult” new car build Toyota has faced yet, according to technical director Tom Fowler.

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/w...aced/10822921/

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

A recent (paywalled) Autosport article uses this headline and intro...

Why WRC 2027 car project is the “most difficult” Toyota has faced.

Developing a World Rally Championship car for the new 2027 technical regulations is the “most difficult” new car build Toyota has faced yet, according to technical director Tom Fowler.

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/w...aced/10822921/

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If true, that's not so positive for the proposed projects from Hansen and the Spanish.

On that topic, if those two other projects are wanting to start in 2027, wouldn't they want to have engine and transmission deals done by now.....?

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Originally Posted by deephouse

Many of guys being in top wasn't supposed being there as their results did prove why were they there.

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many? i'd be curios of that names!

it's all about context again.
u can say mcerlean (but is not far from top 10 of erc)
armstrong was 2nd erc last year.
the others are already above that level...

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Originally Posted by rallyfiend

If true, that's not so positive for the proposed projects from Hansen and the Spanish.

On that topic, if those two other projects are wanting to start in 2027, wouldn't they want to have engine and transmission deals done by now.....?

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rally one should already have skoda.

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Originally Posted by rallyfiend

If true, that's not so positive for the proposed projects from Hansen and the Spanish.

On that topic, if those two other projects are wanting to start in 2027, wouldn't they want to have engine and transmission deals done by now.....?

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It's in general pretty quiet. You would think that if you want to drive in 27, testing should have already started for you?

Mid-2027 has been mentioned a few times as the earliest the new cars will be seen (barring perhaps Toyota's).

I wouldn't be surprised if its 2028. There could even be a delay all-round and everyone using their Rally2 Cars next year.

FIA should already delay everything on 2028 a few months ago, but they still stick their heads in the sand thinking it will all work out.